Crackdown on illegal holiday lettings

[gusangus]

In this case the fines are being leveled against the person and not the property. and there is an agreement with the inland revenue to persue the owners in the UK.

[alanadale]

"Any concerned property owners can search the BOC to see if they have been registered, go to the website www.gobcan.es/boc, click the Búsqueda avanzada (www.gobcan.es/boc/busqueda.html) option and enter your NIE number into the "buscar en texto" section and press "buscar" – hopefully a link to your name won't appear."

Why would you enter your NIE number on a Government website which is actively looking for the villa owners concerned?

[gusangus]

To find out if a boletin has been issued against you. if one has then you have 15 days from the date odf  issue of the boletin to appeal

[alanadale]

gusangus,

My point is that surely by entering your NIE number into this website, you are letting the gobierno know who you are and that you probably have an "illegal" holiday villa. Why else would you be on this webpage, looking at this topic, entering your NIE number to see if there is a fine livied against you? To my mind you may as well send them a picture of yourself, your address and your bank account number!

[gusangus]

Why don´t you read the information given by Janet Anscombe it´s all there from the start up to the latest update.

[alanadale]

Why donn't I read the information given by Janet Anscombe.....right!

Gee, silly old me. I hadn't thought of that......

Thanks for the advice gusangus. That's really, really helpful.

[gusangus]

You could loose you right to appeal if they have issued a boletin against you and you don´t find out. the ball is in your court after they issue it.

[wesmin]

Has anyone in Fuerteventura actually been fined as yet?

[sharky]

alanadale, the reason, as gusangus says "To find out if a boletin has been issued against you" is correct.

The search you would be doing will not relate to any particular subject or issue, merely to find the matching text in any document on their site, much the ssame as searching for a word in a PDF document.
Any goverment official, if they were to have your NIE as a saved search, which I doubt, would have as much chance of thinking you may be applying for a licence for commercial fishing, bar, massage parlour or taxi.

[fifi]

quote:Originally posted by wesmin

Has anyone in Fuerteventura actually been fined as yet?

According to the article 7000 people are in the process of being fined and this includes people from all of the Islands Wes. I think anyone who has advertised on a holiday letting website can take it for granted that they will be fined because that is one of the ways that they caught so many people, but it may take a year or so before they are all processed. Owners Direct and some other companies were mentioned on the Tenerife forum. The only names that appear on the BOC are the names of people who they have been unable to physically serve with a fine or whos papers have been returned. I understand what Alan is saying about it being risky putting your NIE number into the website. Its not necessary to do that though because you can check the Boletin every day. The fines are always in the same section and there are only five or six every day and you get used to the look of them and can see the persons name clearly and so dont need to even translate them.

It is worth keeping an eye on. If for example an owner did not receive a fine in person and did not bother checking the Boletins they would not know anything about it and could end up being fined  €150,000 for a second offence. If the fines are not paid they are attatched to the property. Without knowing it you could end up with no equity at all in your property. Scary stuff.

[gusangus]

taken from Janet Anscombes site  http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/illegal-holiday-let-inspections-and-fines-situation-continued.html

In terms of practicalities, the fines are levied on the owner, not the property. If the fine is unpaid, it will be registered against the property. If the property has changed hands, then the fine will remain as levied against the person, and cannot be registered against the property. The Government intends to use an existing mechanism which utilises the reciprocal arrangements between the Hacienda and the Inland Revenue to pursue the case against the individual should it become impossible to register an unpaid fine against the property. This means, in short, that they are going to go after owners in the UK if they have sold up here before the fine was registered against their property. If multiple fines are imposed to the point where the total amount fined exceeds the value of the property (value as determined by the tax authorities), then the Government will undertake repossession measures

[Cameron]

Its nothing more than corperate theft. Theres no country in the world that undereacts or overeacts like the Spanish authorities. With fines like that they are basically saying if you have the temerity to rent out your OWN property we will ruin you financially.Its a bullying attitude and is victimising owners and criminalising them for nothing other than looking after the concerns of the big hotelliers. Theres nowhere in the world that treats their homeowners in that fashion, and i can't think fines like that could stand up in a court of law. Before paying any rediculous fines a trip to a solicitor would seem advisable and preferably one who specialises in European law, also find out how previous cases have panned out.Once you've paid it you'll never get it back.

[waggy]

It's a very uneasy situation for all those concerned.
 Reminds me of all the trouble some expats with land holdings and large gardens had in Valencia district not too long ago when developers exercised the right to take any land they deemed fit , providing the development was for affordable housing for young indigenes.
The land in question was not seized just for the property plots themselves but for access roads and new communal areas too.

What will they do when the considerable spending power of the expats has gone, presuming they push this latest move to the point of idiocy. Talk about cutting your nose off, etc.

[richelworthy]

Banks are going to get lots of keys in the post !!!
People will turn heads and walk away from the Island.
People would be happy to have a letting license if they could sort one.
What's the siuation with the tax people have paid to the tax office for letting are we going to get a refund now ?? or told to go away!!
If it an illegal transaction is it illegal to take the tax then for this letting.?

[SurfJames]

As fifi suggested, renting is the way forward.

Owning means you cannot walk away - you become a victim for taxation. If you try to cover some of the taxes by renting out, you get a massive fine (which ends up in the govt. bank account).

Complexes will become shabby as owners walk away. At worse the complex collapses. Then it is sold to a new developer who does it up and sells as residential units. And the whole cycle starts again.

These guys are nothing short of acting like the mafia.

[fifi]

The "Illegal lettings thread" on the Tenerife Forum is worth following. Some owners on a complex which was previously classed as Touristic are looking into how much it would cost to try and regain their status and  set up a sole agent to manage bookings etc.

The main problem seems to be cost of it all ,and whether 50% plus one would  agree to pay for a daily maid service,life guard (30k for the lifeguard alone) running a Reception area and Management fees.What they seem to be finding is that they would not be cost competitive with the existing Tourist complexes so that is a problem.

A lot of the older Tourist complexes which were privatised would not have a lot of money in their Community contingency fund (if they even have one) for upgrading to the required standards. As far as I can remember without reading the thread again the cost of financing the change for an average sized complex would be 100K per annum and if you only managed to get the minimum amount of people willing to change to a sole agent it would work out very expensive per owner.

I cant see it working to be honest but it is interesting reading.

[fifi]

Originally posted by Cameron

Before paying any rediculous fines a trip to a solicitor would seem advisable and preferably one who specialises in European law, also find out how previous cases have panned out.Once you've paid it you'll never get it back.

               ......................


There is only 15 days for an appeal to be lodged (and you may not even be aware that you have been fined if you do not read the Boletins), and also the expense of Legal action could amount to more than the cost of the fine so that would be a problem Cameron. If a large group of people were to try and change or try and work within the law (as in the case of Touristic complexes) it would be easier. It will be interesting to see how the Tenerife Lawyers get on when they meet the Minister for Tourism.

[Cameron]

In that case fifi a trip to the solicitors before a fine arrives could be a good bet for those who think they are a high risk of being targeted. My take on this is that ANY homeowners not just those renting should be praying that we do not exit the euro and are left without the protection of the Euro courts. With no restrictions holding them back the Spanish will just make rules to suit themselves and ride roughshod over foriegn homeowners taking what they want when they want. I'd be a little concerned if i was a retiree, expat or just a home owning renter. Sounds a bit doomy but i can see comeing and its a scarey scenario all round..

[SurfJames]

Driving home from work tonight, I was thinking about this thread, and the unfair stress that the authorities are putting on people. I have been saving hard and have the funds, ready to buy in the new year - a villa in Corri. I was looking at properties around 300K and was hoping to buy within walking distance of town; if possible Avenida Grandes Playas. But I thought - what the blazes !  If they are going to treat investors in their country so badly, why take the risk? Why spend my hard earned cash on an asset that cannot generate income if my own situation takes a turn for the worse? If you own something, you should be free to use it to your own advantage.

So they can go to hell.[!]

 I'm not spending in the Canaries, but looking at other countries instead. Somewhere that welcomes investors with open arms; somewhere where you are free from petty regulations

So, sorry Estate Agents, furniture stores, taxi drivers, supermarkets, cleaners and key holders, tourist attractions etc etc etc etc, but you ain't gonna get any of my money because your greedy mafiosa authorities are taking too much of my wealth without offering anything in return.

And you won't be getting any of the money from other holiday makers who would have loved to rent my up-market villa

And this will happen again and again and again from buyers until the penny drops!!!

This has to be the most short sighted mean spirited law ever imposed by corrupt mafiosa authorities. [][][8D]

[old_stumpy]

I would be glad to see the end of the unregulated private rental market.  I own a modest house on a small complex which I bought many years ago at a price less even than today's prices, so I have very little capital exposure and no mortgage.  We visit 5 or 6 times a year and our family also.  I have never rented the house out nor will I ever do so.

On our complex the typical renters are northern pikeys or southern chavs - boozy, noisy and uncultured.  The fewer the better and preferably none at all.  Let them stay away or go AI, it keeps them out of my way.  It's a shame if the local economy suffers, but we come for the scenery, not the bars and restaurants.  The view driving west across the mountains via Cardon and north along the west coast to Pajara and Betancuria (my favourite drive) is the same whether there are one or a hundred bars in Corralejo.

The price of houses will collapse, maybe, but then new buyers will come in at the cheap prices and eventually a new equilibrium will be reached.  People will get hurt.  What do you expect?  The world is in the middle of a major depression - why should home owners on Fuerteventura be immune?

[Surfista]

On your complex the typical renters are northern pikeys or southern chavs... wow sweeping generalisation!

I would have thought that if you wanted to stay away from the 'Great Uncultured and Unwashed', buying a property on a complex was a rather naiive move.

IMO the 'chavs' usually buy a package, the independent traveller usually takes more care in researching the destination and decides on a private rental to get away from the Brits Abroad scene...another generalisation but there ya go.

The ridiculous restrictions on private rentals will just deprive the Canaries from independent travellers who use local businesses and services. If the powers that be want to have 5 star establishments to the fore, the locale conomy will suffer....people having money should not be equated with them having 'culture'.

Way, way back in the evolution of Fuerteventura becoming a tourist destination, things were different.  It was largely the surfing community that discovered Fuerte' and they had no need for tacky Brit Bars or AI hotels. They appreciated and loved the island for what it had to offer naturally. As with the vast majority of 'resorts' the major places on the islands have been spoilt...not by private renters, but by mass market tourism accommodation.  IMO Ryanair will pull if this silly law is not repealed....which will affect most property owners who live abroad.

[alanadale]

Blimey old_stumpy.

That was the most selfish, ill-informed and utterly self-serving post I've ever seen on this forum. And that is against some stiff competition.

Yes, I know it's an open forum where you have a right to say what you think. It is also my right to be utterly repulsed by your crass insensitivity and borderline racism.

Idiot.

[Cameron]

Its nothing to do with racism. He like a lot of other retirees think that the whole island should be one massive old folks home for them to dither about in. Buy on a complex in a holiday resort and wonder why you are surrounded by tourists. Pricelss. If you want residential maybe Puerto is the place to be.

[fourthwisemonkey]

"it's a shame if the local economy suffers, but we come for the scenery, not the bars and restaurants. The view driving west across the mountains via Cardon and north along the west coast to Pajara and Betancuria (my favourite drive) is the same whether there are one or a hundred bars in Corralejo.

The price of houses will collapse, maybe, but then new buyers will come in at the cheap prices and eventually a new equilibrium will be reached."


This is just the sort of attitude we need. I am okay, my house is still in equity and so sod you all. I can just visit when I want and do what I want.........HOWEVER how will you get here when the only flights available will be carrying AI tourists (guess you would not want to share a plane with those chavs and pikeys). Also be nice and easy shopping for food as I am sure all the big stores will retain a presence just for you. Hope you know all about plumbing ,electrics,building etc so you can do all your own repairs as all the workmen will have left (unless employed at AI hotel.) That is assuming you will be able to buy the materials locally . Enjoy your little drive around as it will become even better when there are only a few goat-herders on the road to impede your journey (assuming there are any cars to hire). And heaven forbid you should need hospital treatment as without local tax payers to pay for the hospital etc then you may face a trip on a rowing boat over to Gran Canaria to see the doctor.

Whilst we have people with your narrow minded, I am all right Jack attitude we will never get anywhere on this island. no wonder the authorities feel it is so easy to do what they want!

Rant over

[fifi]

I had a quick look on the internet to see what is happening in other countries. In Portugal there are fines of up to €25,000 for not having a license and it seems that licenses are not easily come by either. http://dj-law.com/14.html

In Italy licenses are also required.

I believe that in time licenses will be offered to villa owners because there is a growing demand for that kind of accommodation and it is one which can not be met without private owners.

In April a letting agent  who was fined looked into the possibility of getting licenses for villas in the future and was given this advice by the Department of Tourism. This is worth noting.

"The pointers being to try to get the villas with a many safety measures in place for the time when they would be allowed a tourist licence i.e
fire extinguishers,fire alarms,recorded pool check,proper fire retardent fabrics,pest control certificates and as many safety precautions you can supply,some of our villas have now put in safety fences around pools,which in my opinion is a good safety measure........we are not giving our clients a touristic service because we dont offer them meals or a maid service, i know most apartments dont either but the apartments are either on residential or touristic blocks, not private land like the villas "

[Cameron]

Where were the touristic department 7 or 8 years ago when the economy was booming. Complexes and apartments were being built all over the place, with estate agents yelling from the rooftops how much rental income you could grab from them. I don't remember them disciplining any estate agents about advertising rental potential and not informing investers a liscence was required by law.They were conspicuous by their absence.Now most of those Estate agents are long gone with their ill gotten gains out they come demanding non existent legal papers and dishing out extortionate fines.It matters not a jot if it is the same in other Euro countries it stinks and its always the little guy's bank account gets a caning.

[Florence]

So Portugal and Italy also dish out fines.  Honestly, sometimes its quite easy to see why there are some countries in the eurozone doing so badly.  Stifling business and missing out on tax collection...

[sharky]

The Public meeting due on 15th December which was cancelled and then was planned for the latter half of January, has in fact, gone ahead today.

I don't yet have all the details yet but my source tells me that legal challenges were made by the "owners" lawyers against the government for the way in which evidence was gathered in order to fine the individual.

They have basically suggested that even though someone advertises a property on the internet with intent to let it, that in itself is not sufficient to state that they actually have let it.

More to follow no doubt.

[fifi]

Thanks for that Sharky. There is more information about the meeting here and also a reduction in fines after appeal. http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/illegal-holiday-let-inspections-and-fines-situation-continued.html

The Public meeting is due to be held still in January and it is expected that Restaurateurs, Taxi men and Business owners will attend to  show their support.

[waybo]

"To end, the lawyers had clear advice for owners who feel they have no choice but to continue to advertise while this lobbying is going on. That advice is firstly to remove any suggestion from adverts of a touristic offer: not just "holidays", but "touristic services", including cleaning, safe storage boxes, airport transfers etc. Secondly, for those with clearly touristic adverts, to write to the administrators of any websites hosting their adverts and say that you do not agree with what is reproduced in your name and that all your letting conforms to the Urban Letting Law – i.e. that you are only offering residential lets. It will be essential to keep a copy, and to send the original by registered mail for proof of delivery: here, there is also the facility of Burofaxes which prove what was actually in the letter sent."

Fifi thank you for that link but I don't understand this paragraph, maybe its the translation. Anyone know what this means