Crackdown on illegal holiday lettings

[fifi]

http://www.canarianweekly.com/government-tough-illegal-holiday-lets/

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2011/11/17/crack-down-on-illegal-holiday-lettings-in-the-canaries/

http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/inspectors-to-find-and-fine-owners-of-residential-apartments-who-let-commercially.html "Owners recommended to check BOC to see if they have been fined"http://www.gobcan.es/boc/2011/160/001.html

http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/illegal-holiday-let-inspections-and-fines-situation-continued.html " 7,000 fines have been levied on owners all across the Canaries, on every island".

[alanadale]

Here we go again.

If anyone can come up with any better illustration why politicians shouldn't be left on their own with sharp objects, this is it.

I've watched this subject come up in the forum over the last couple of years, and it makes me streefully sick to my stomach every time it come up. How can politicians be so completely thoughtless, stupid, so short-sighted and so utterly inept it staggers me. Can they not see the utter devastation that this sort of lunacy brings.

Licence it, and they'll earn massive amounts from it. They'll earn tens, hundreds of millions from it, all over Spain bringing all the benefits the taxes would bring. Every villa owner I speak to says they want a licence, some are absolutely desperate for a licence, but they can't get one. They would pay through the nose for it.

Apart from the obvious first line casualties regarding the devastation to the local economy of bars, restaurants and shops I take a slightly wider view. Since you can't legally rent out a holiday home out and you will be fined massively if you try to , does anyone think they will ever sell another house on the islands?

Whoops, that takes care of every estate agent, bank lending department and notary.

Why build any more if you can't sell them.

Whoops, there goes the local property developers and local builders and labourers.

If no-one is in the house, there is no wear and tear so why have any improvements done to their houses.

Whoops, there goes builders, joiners, kitchen fitters and plumbers

Can't rent out houses for a holiday, so no houses need cleaning.

Whoops, there goes property managers, letting agents and cleaners.

No tourists to drive around the island

Whoops, there goes local car hire.

No-one in any cars?

Bye bye all our tourist attarctions and local employment at places like La lajita and Baku

All they are doing is criminalising vast swathes of otherwise law-abiding people who want to contribute to the local economy, helping everyone live. But can't because the stupid government wont allow them to.

There are millions of houses all over Spain that need selling and allowing buyers to get licences would help this massive Government burden. The governments yearly wealth tax yield would increases. Banks would lend more, so more tax for the Spanish government

I'm flabbergasted, sick, worried. This does nothing but re-inforce my utter revile-ing of politicians and the authorities in general and make me more determined to absolutely carry on as normal and ignore them.

I always come back to the same conclusion : Are the politicians who are opposed to licencing backed by the big hotel chains?

Politicians caused the problems we are in.

God, I absolutely detest them for the upset they cause.

[fifi]

I totally agree. I do not let my bungalow out because it is illegal. It is good though that Property websites are at least letting people know in advance of purchasing now that it is illegal to let property out. If I had known about the law I would have never purchased on the Island. You live and learn.

[Florence]

I think this law is illegal.  If any owners are threatened with fines then they have a good case to band together to take the Spanish Government to the European Courts.  Mind you, I don't think any individual owners will be fined.  Too many and too much hassle.  Letting out your bungalow to friends and family is not illegal Fifi - know what I mean?

[fifi]

Friends and family are fine Florence so long as you do not advertise anywhere.It has been before the EU courts before as far as I can remember. There are loads of people being fined Florence, have a look at the BOC.

[Florence]

I can't see the multitude of owners on the various websites rolling over and accepting this.  There has already been a scandal with home selling on preserved land in mainland Spain and I can't see the authorities having the inclination to dish up another hoo ha.  They are trying to woo more buyers - not put them off.  And it is an illegal law.  I am convinced of that.

[fifi]

No one has to accept anything. Its the way of the land and the law has been around for years but not implemented until recently inorder to draw in more funds. Its up to the owners to find out what is going on. Personally I just wont take the risk.

[alanadale]

And fifi, that is what is completely wrong with the situation mate. Why SHOULDN'T you legally be able to rent your house out to whoever you choose?

This law is an ass and, like I said, it just criminalises tens or hundreds of thousands of people.

The problem is that no private individual can object to the law for fear of identification and the subsequent reprisals. The vast majority of people want licences, they are prepared to pay for them, they would pay tax on their earnings. I don't want to be doing anything illegal but have very little choice.

If I had known I couldn't rent my property out legally I would never, ever, have came to the islands. I would not have uprooted my family for a different, more peaceful way of life. I wouldn't have have put all my children in the schools here or attempted to build a life here.

It is madness, utter lunacy not to allow people to even be given the opportunity to de-criminalise themselves.

I think a class legal action along the lines of illegal restraint of trade will eventually be presented to the European Court of Human Rights as the ultimate solution and hopefully kick these stupid people into touch.

All politicians/authorities want to do is bully people around and have some sort of threat to hang over peoples heads so they do as they are told. It is shown time and time again that things are generally better when politicians are excluded from a decision making process. Let people decide for themselves what they want to do.

[alanadale]

Does anyone know why licences aren't actually granted? What reasons are given?

[ZappaRocks]

quote:Originally posted by alanadale

Does anyone know why licences aren't actually granted? What reasons are given?

alanadale wrote "I always come back to the same conclusion : Are the politicians who are opposed to licencing backed by the big hotel chains?"

Sorry had to edit this didn't realise at the time that the asker was the same person who had already replied []

[fullofviento]

While it is madness the legislation has been in place since 1996, its just that the Spanish Government chose not to implement/enforce it. I know of a few owners in Tenerife who bought in good faith on residential complexes and have been issued with fines, the authorities have been visiting complexes and trawling holiday letting sites including owners direct.

[ZappaRocks]

How long has the legislation that says you can't get a license been in place?

[fuefairy]

As long as you have adequate public sector liability insurance, pay your tax and are legal, I cant see why the government continue to interfere......

[alanadale]

ZappaRocks, this is from the janetanscombe blog that fifi has posted at the top

"Firstly, the Ayuntamiento has rejected any proposal to change the classification of land to mixed or touristic. Secondly, however, it wouldn't matter if they had agreed because Turismo has said, explicitly and emphatically, that under Ley 19, 2003, there is a moratorium on touristic licences which prohibits the grant of any licence other than to 5 star hotels"

[alanadale]

Fuefairy,

God only knows why they interfere. The governments job should be to help people,not hinder them. they should licence it and produce a set of regulations for a villa owner to follow for fire, disabled access etc etc.

They'ld know who was renting, who to apply a licence fee to and who to tax. They would raise many, many times the amount they think they will raise through fines and penalties, without anywhere near the resistance. It would be a self-perpetuating cash cow for them, completely dependent on the success of the island which is what the majority of people want.

Business would thrive because more people would be here and local tradesmen would flourish because there would be businesses to service.

[fifi]

Originally posted by alanadale

And fifi, that is what is completely wrong with the situation mate. Why SHOULDN'T you legally be able to rent your house out to whoever you choose?

Hopefully in time it will be sorted out. The different fines are being discussed on some of the other Forums if anyone wants a look. "The fines listed on apartments owners are

1. No book of complaints 8,500e
2. No notice of complaints book 8,500e
3. Touristic explotation 1500e"

http://www.tenerifeforum.org/tenerife-forum/showthread.php?23-The-Tenerife-illegal-lettings-thread/page198

[ZappaRocks]

"God only knows why they interfere. The governments job should be to help people,not hinder them."

The governments are just front ends for corporations these days and while it's difficult enough to have transparency in government it's impossible with corporations, try a freedom of information act and see where it gets you. They in turn are owned by other corporations as shareholders and worse still they own each other, ever wonder why a MacDonalds sits outside a particular hotel? Check their shareholders you'll find big mac at the top, wonder why one hotel will prefer Coke instead of pepsi, check the same list.

In the past real government was always sensitive of monopolies for this reason but as a shareholder of a shareholder no one really gets to see who owns what in the large network of them all.

This is happening round the world with the same results, Gambia being one of the few to try and save their local industry from the sharks and banned AI but with the airlines in bed with the hotels they lasted just a year before they had to let them back in.

We see the direct effects of it here with the tourist industry but pick any field where there's money to be made and it's much the same with the same excuse, it's better for us. Yet our bills soar and the service drops.

This was written about decades ago but few believed it then and still ignore it despite now feeling it for real. You're correct in everything you say but they're smart people who know full well themselves, they simply don't care.

[bluefox]

just like ireland & u.k. trying to claw every cent & penny they can (i call it cent & penny pinchin, euro-pound foolish) spain beng no different, you can see it in fuerte with the petty traffic depts. imposing fine's for the like's of the wearing of flip-flop's, 1 arm out the window whilst driving etc. one example of "penny pinching". abiding by these so called spanish "law's" is a joke, example here being, paying a fee to the notary when buying your property to investigate there's no debt on it, never done, so you tend to loose interest in whatever else the authorities come up with, so, can someone tell me what is this "wealth-tax" you're suppose to pay, and being told, "it's in case you rent out your property for profit", i've never heard of this renting licence, does'nt make a difference to me, as mine is rent free ! to family and close friend's that is, other than that i don't rent out.

[fifi]

You pay tax for the privilege of owning an apartment or holiday home if you do not rent it out. It is a sort of "non letting out" tax and it is based on the cadastral value of your property.http://spanishtaxforms.co.uk/page/1on0t/Spanish_property.html#question%206

It is different from wealth tax which has come back again but  now only applies to those who are quite wealthy.

[bluefox]

just quoting what i was told fifi, but apparently if you have residency you don't pay it, now, where do i go to get mine sorted ? resi that is.

[fifi]

The Police station in Rosario did mine Bluefox. I think you would need to declare yourself as a Spanish tax resident before any changes would be made. You become a tax resident if you spend 183 days a year in the Country. Look into it carefully if you are still living in both countries as it may effect some of your entitlements. The type of Residencia I have is the Certificado de registro de ciudano de la union, which does not effect your taxes in your home country.

[fourthwisemonkey]

As the quoted fines are basically for the documentation you need if you are a business ie hoja de reclamacion and noticia de hoja I wonder if they could get away with this if you are autonomo and hence have to carry those forms on your person (in my case I have to have them in my van though not sure where in the windscreen I would place the A4 sized noticia.

Perhaps you could be autonomo property agent or somesuch.....have I found a loophole???

[fifi]

You never know fourthwisemonkey.[]If you had 50% plus one of an old  Tourist complex units on your books which had been passed by the Inspectors it might be possible. All bookings would have to be through you as the sole agent for the complex and the units would need to still have their Tourist status I think.

[SurfJames]

This really is an outrageous situation. Why put money into a property, which you then legally own, but then find that it has this restriction imposed on it?  You are better off putting the money into a bank deposit account and just renting. It seem to me, that as soon as you own the property, you become a victim for taxation, because you cannot just 'up-sticks'.

This will completely kill off the tourist trade in the Canaries. The demand for hotel rooms will soar and hence the cost of those rooms will go up. But, overall numbers will fall, and the airlines will pull cheap flights.

And worse than this, owners will struggle to maintain their properties and complexes will go into decline. Those left holding property within the complexes, will face bigger and bigger financial demands for maintenance.

The Spanish need to sort this out double quick. They have a reputation of being short-sighted and corrupt, and this does nothing to address that view.

They must be prepared to start issuing permits. The problem, though, is so many properties have the word 'residential' attached to them. Getting 51% of complex owners to agree to accept lettings might prove difficult.

[SurfJames]

Just an after thought.....Will they be placing fines on individuals on residential complexes or will they impose the fines on the community?

[fifi]

quote:Originally posted by SurfJames

Just an after thought.....Will they be placing fines on individuals on residential complexes or will they impose the fines on the community?

I dont know if the Communities are being fined too, maybe they are if they are operating illegally.

[fifi]

quote:Originally posted by fuefairy

As long as you have adequate public sector liability insurance, pay your tax and are legal, I cant see why the government continue to interfere......

According to some articles I have read Public Liability insurance wont pay out if you let out illegally.

               ..........

[SurfJames]

I've been thinking........always a bad sign as my mum would say!

The Canarian Government clearly feel that they have a case to push this forward and impose fines on home owners without worrying too much about the potential impact on the economy. Why?

I reckon for the following reasons:

1. They feel stuck between a rock and a hard place and need to raise revenue asap to prevent a credit default...the result of which would cost the locals population heavily and the islands would have to start selling publically owned national assets, such as airports, hospitals etc
2. A credit crises would push up the cost of borrowing and the economy would slide into a depression
3. Property owners have been flouting the law and not declaring their income and tax
4. Imposing these fines will raise massive revenue, enabling the islands to re-invent themselves.

I reckon the Canaries see themselves as going 'up-market' and attracting a different sort of holiday maker in the future. They see little profit in mass-tourism and think the future lies in becoming 'elite', which might make sense, because they do have a unique and special environment, that you won't find anywhere else in the World.

That explains why they are only prepared to offer licenses to 5* hotels.

In other words, the Canaries could end up like Switzerland - a unique, special environment with reduced tourism and also a tax haven. They will also restrict property ownership and those that want to live there. If you already own, you may find yourselves very e=wealthy in 20 years tme!!  []

Just an idea, an I may be completely wrong, but there must be a reason behind this tax raising exercise. After all 7000 is just the start and this will raise E126 million alone....the total take could be in the billions. [!]

[][][][8D]

[SurfJames]

quote:Originally posted by fifi

quote:Originally posted by SurfJames

Just an after thought.....Will they be placing fines on individuals on residential complexes or will they impose the fines on the community?

I dont know if the Communities are being fined too, maybe they are if they are operating illegally.

It would seem unfair to punish the whole community, fifi, particulaly when owners who don't rent out, find those that do a pain in the bottom.

ps...sorry to hear about your hip. I've damaged a ligament in my knee and cannot run at the moment, which is most upsetting!! These things take so long to heal.

[][][8D]

[falkirkdan]

What happens if you have rented a property for a holiday.   Say one as advertised on reputable sites and have paid the rental and the property police come along and declare it "illegal" ??