Crackdown on illegal holiday lettings

[fifi]

Its just a delaying tactic really and was only recommended to people that have no option but to continue advertising and letting out their property so that they can afford the mortgage repayments.

There is a very good explanation about the law here http://www.escobedo.net/index.php/Escobedo_abogados/articles/holiday_rentals_in_the_canary_isles_questions_answers

[cockney]

I'm pleased to see that Escobedo is referring to Law 7. The lettings section of this law was brought about by complaints from tenants of residential apartments who were being inconvenienced by tourists asking them for help because there was not a properly manned reception office on the complex. There was also the problem of noise from tourists occupying residential apartments who by nature make much more noise than normal residents. From memory, the law differentiates between Villas which have a separate entrance and can not be considered as part of a complex. They are free to let but their tenants are still expected to behave reasonably and not cause a nuisance to their neighbours.

Apartments are of course a different case where by design the tenants are living in much closer proximity. For this reason the individual complexes must be declared Tourist or Residential and it is usually the older units that are the later and I would imagine very few would wish to change. A Tourist complex must have a 24 hour reception office a life guard and life belts for the pool and fire extinguishers. There is also a requirement that ALL lettings must be made through ONE appointed company or agent. It is apartment owners who falling foul of the law either by letting a Residential apartment to tourists or not using the approved agent for letting a tourist apartment.

Incidentally the law states that election vehicles with loud speakers must not be used in tourist area.[]

[fifi]

So glad to hear that Cockney. I hate loudspeakers.[]

TFL LAWYERS PRESENTATION TOOK PLACE AT ADEJE ON 21ST DECEMBER 2011 – 11:00

 TFL lawyers had an intense debate about the Canary Islands Governments controversial plan to eradicate illegal holiday rentals in tourist areas . Reactions from the meeting below....



The function of Government and the Office of Tourism is to improve the quantity and quality of tourists to economically benefit the Canary Islands, without fear or favour. For many years, the administration had rarely implemented the laws which restrict property owners from renting their accommodation to tourists (defined as renters for less than 3 months) leading many to believe that although the law was in place, like many laws here and elsewhere, there was no intention to prosecute the law. However in 2011, some 16 years after the laws were passed, Turismo appears to have decided to prosecute. Some questions we need to Turismo to answer follow.

1.- Are Turismo aware that fining 7000 people for alleged illegal renting will devastate the tourist industry in Tenerife?

Removing at least 10,000 tourist beds is the equivalent to closing around 30 hotels, which will cause a shortage of accommodation meaning many tourists will take their holidays elsewhere. This may create some business in the short term for hotels with empty rooms, but the truth is that people who want to stay in apartments do not want to stay in hotels, especially hotels which are 30 years old, in need of renovation, and will simply go elsewhere for their holiday. Turismo's remit is to increase the number of tourists coming to Tenerife. This action will undoubtedly reduce the number of tourists coming to Tenerife.

2.- Are Turismo aware that their actions will mean that many people who use the rental income for payment of mortgages, will now default on their mortgages, causing many problems for banks who hold these mortgages?

A lot property owners have mortgages which have a value in excess of the value of the property, especially if the property is embargoed by Turismo as a result of an 18,000 euro fine, and will simply abandon the property. This means additional problems for the Spanish Banks and Spanish economy, which holds 300 billion euros in mortgage debt, 50% of which is already considered "troubled". At a time when the whole of Spain is on the edge of another recession and the whole of the eurozone is in deep trouble, this is the last thing needed in the banking system.

3- Are Turismo aware that their actions will cause massive problems in the Tenerife property market?

Since August 2007, the Tenerife property market has been falling in value, and it is now considered prices are 40% to 50% below their August 2007 value. Tursimo's actions will mean that thousands of people will put their properties for sale. Additionally if there is no prospect for economically renting properties, then there will be fewer potential buyers, and the combination of lower demand and higher supply always ends up with one thing – another huge drop in the value of property. To cause another drop in property price will be disastrous for Tenerife.

4.- Are Turismo aware that their actions will result in investors completely ignoring Tenerife as a place to buy property?

Investors are looking for a return on their investment, and will not be interested in the kind of returns available from the Exploitation companies, typically 2% or 3% maximum, which are below the value which can be obtained by putting the money in the bank. Tenerife needs investors, this will make them go elsewhere.

5.- Are Turismo aware that their actions will devastate the business's of restaurants, bars, taxis etc, by reducing the number of "independent travellers" who make their own arrangements to fly, and book their apartments and villas directly?

Many of these business's will close, as they rely on people in self catering accommodation to eat, drink etc in the resort. In particular, with the upsurge in hotels offering "all inclusive", the number of people using these and other facilities will drop massively. In some areas in Tenerife, it is estimated that "all inclusive" is now 80% of the hotel offering.

6.- Are Turismo aware that fully implementing the law which means that in a tourist complex only one company has the monopoly to arrange tourist rentals, that this will mean increased prices for the holiday makers and decreased returns for owners?

In any market place, a company which has a monopoly always takes advantage of their position to increase price. Additionally standards will drop due to lack of competition, and the amount of money passed to property owners by the exploitation company will decrease, devaluing the investment and increasing the likelihood of the owners selling.

7.- Are Turismo aware of the effect they will have on many communities of owners?

Many people will be unable to pay their community fees, and already many communities of owners are struggling to collect community fees which means that some community of owners will become bankrupt and others to ensure the properties are maintained, will have to dramatically increase their community fees

8.- Are Turismo aware that they will reduce to zero the amount of money paid in tax by some owners of apartments and villas in Tenerife.

Contrary to common belief, many apartment and villa owners did in fact pay income tax and in the cases of business's, igic to the Hacienda. Of course when the owners can no longer rent their apartments, there will be no tax to collect. Also from a tax perspective of course, any detrimental effect on the property market or banking system will mean less sales, so the 6.5% tax on sales, and the plus valia will be lost to the tax authorities. Less people doing cleaning, pool maintenance, property maintenance will mean more people unemployed and being supported financially by the government.

9.- Are Turismo aware that their actions will mean that Tenerife will become the only place in the world where it is virtually impossible to rent a villa?

The law relating to letting property was introduced to try to stop people letting in apartments complexes that had either no touristic licence, or no exploitation company. However this has been extended to include villas and mean that it is virtually impossible to own a villa that fulfils the criteria, as the criteria was create for apartments, not villas. No one can apply for a tourist licence because of the moratorium, so anyone who wants to stay in a villa, will no longer come to Tenerife.

10.- In conclusion, it is clear that Turismo's actions are far reaching, and will have a devastating effect across the entire economy of Tenerife. From the effect on the number of tourist beds available, to the loss of revenue to the Hacienda and the bars, restaurants, shops and taxis. From the effect on the banks, to the effect on property prices, and the deterioration of standards due to the withdrawal of competition.

However the biggest effect will be when news of thousands of mostly non resident owners getting fined 18,000€ is published in the British or other foreign media. It will be presented in a way that will give such negative publicity to the Canary Islands and Tenerife in particular, that tourists will not wish to come here, in case they find themselves in "illegal" accommodation. It cannot be sufficiently emphasized how important it is that Turismo step back from their present course of action. This will not only detrimentally affect the tourist economy and the property market, it threatens to destroy the whole economy of Tenerife, which is so heavily dependent on the Tourist industry and the ownership of property by foreign nationals.

There is an alternative strategy, but this requires a lot of work but can achieve all of the objectives, and is applied in a way that is less aggressive but still stops renting in Residential Apartment Complexes.

While it makes absolute sense to try to apply strict controls to the letting of properties in the tourist market, banning people who own villas from doing so, and creating a monopolistic system in the tourist complexes, is not the way to go forward, in any case the latter surely would be considered within European Law to be an anti-competitive practice. Much better would be to create a system of registration and inspection. This would benefit the tourist sector in several ways.

    1) Properties being used for Tourism lets would have to be Registered so a registration fee, perhaps every six months could be charged.
    2) Inspections could be made compulsory every six months, thereby creating desperately needed employment and this could be charged.
    3) Owners could be made to either be resident in Tenerife or have a (registered) agent in Tenerife by Turismo / Hacienda.
    4) All Tourist Lets would have to be notified to Turismo / Hacienda. The owner / agent would then be responsible for paying tax on the let.

The effect of the aforementioned would be that money could be generated through registration and inspection fees, tax would be paid on tourist lets and properties that did not have the proper safety equipment would be deregistered and / or fined. This would also create employment for many Canarian people in Registration, Administration and Inspection. If there were 10,000 properties registered at 500€ every six months in Tenerife, this would generate annually 10m euros, enough to employ at least 500 people. This does not include the massive increase in tax revenues.

Additionally, because owners could advertise themselves as "legal" and "Turismo approved" more foreign tourists would be inclined to come to Tenerife. The properties would be safe and fully equipped to minimum standards, so guests would be more likely to enjoy their holidays in Tenerife and come back the following year.

Turismo has one razon d'etre; that is to encourage a growth of quality, sustainable tourism in the Canary Islands. This attack on private lettings of property is working in entirely the wrong direction, reducing the number of available properties, by doing so increasing prices, putting more people into "all inclusive" options and by making less attractive the whole idea of tourists coming to Tenerife, and even more importantly, returning for a second and third visit as opposed to going to the emerging tourist destinations like Turkey, Greece, Croatia, Thailand and the Arab countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Dubai, and so on.

Turismo must turn back, remove the fines, issue an amnesty for people renting in Residential Complexes, and stop attacking the people who financed the economic growth enjoyed by Tenerife in the late 20th and early 21st century. This is not a game of cat and mouse with Turismo or Ashotel, this is not a minor issue that can be ignored. This is a colossal issue, with total fines said to be in excess of 100,000,000 euros being imposed on hapless apartment and villa owners, whose only "crime" was to permit someone to stay in their property for a few hundred euros. The alternative is economic misery, more timeshare, more all inclusive hotels and the end of Tenerife as a significant quality tourist destination.

[Cameron]

Good to see those responsible on Tenerife are being told the error of thier ways. Lets hope they take heed of what all sensible people could already see..

[fifi]

Update....meeting tomorrow.... http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/public-meeting-and-illegal-letting-lobbying-association-announcement.html/comment-page-1#comment-13816

[trebol66]

Should be interesting to see the outcome.

I read the Spanish papers regularly and this issue has not been mentioned much if at all. It will be interesting to see if it crops up soon.

I see there is a community in Tenerife that is reapplying for turistic status, and that they need unaninimity to make that change.

I can imagine making such a change might cause friction. There are probably non renters on the complex who may well find they incur costs that are for the benefit of the renters. If an owner didn´t want it and voted against they might have to face the ire of those that rely on renting properties to make it pay,

The lack of publicity around the issue means that many owners are ignorant about what is going on in Tenerife and that´s  owners in Tenerife.

I don´t think many people here have looked into the situation thoroughly.

[waggy]

Can't you mods. do something about snipping up these mile-long threads into digestible length pages?

[fifi]

Is it slow to load for you Waggy? Loading ok for me at the moment. Sometimes Admin create pages. Maybe they will do so with this thread.

Trebol I contacted a journalist from one of the online papers about the Government press release when it came out first to see if they would be running with the story. I was told it would have to be passed on to the Editor for approval first. No surprises that they didnt run with it because it would upset other fee paying advertisers who are trying to sell properties.

Details of the online petition will be on Janets website soon. Signatures from all of the Islands are welcome.[]

[waggy]

Hi fifi, It loads OK but takes six years of scrolling to get to the bottom of the thread. On most sites each page on a thread carries about 10-12 posts, say.
Jand's Hierro thread made me dizzy by the time I got down to the business end. But it was worth it when I did.

[appy ammer]

press end doh!

[fifi]

Oh I never knew you could do that Appy.[:I] Better still it works.[]I used to always move the bar at the side. Try the end button like Appy suggests Waggy.[]

[Elite of the forum]

yes press END to take you to the bottom  and HOME to take you back to the top[]

[HH]

If you click on the arrow next to the name of the last poster in the 'Last Post' column, this will take you to the bottom.  The arrow at the far right will take you to the top.  Same as End and Home really.

[HH]

I wonder why, when cut and pasted (albeit very informative) text is entered in a different format, the whole topic  horizontal sizing alters to fit this and not the other way round.  Happens with pictures sometimes too. Hey ho!  Not that important really.  GET READY FOR WORK!!!

[fifi]

I never noticed the little arrows before or the home button. You learn something new every day.[]

[fifi]

quote:Originally posted by HH

I wonder why, when cut and pasted (albeit very informative) text is entered in a different format, the whole topic  horizontal sizing alters to fit this and not the other way round.  Happens with pictures sometimes too. Hey ho!  Not that important really.  GET READY FOR WORK!!!

Its beyond me HH.[][]

[fifi]

Update on blog.... http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/press-release-issued-to-spanish-media-introducing-illegal-letting-association-alotca.html/comment-page-1#comment-13947

Press release for Spanish media introducing illegal letting lobbying association – ALOTCA
March 15th, 2012

This is my translation of the press release that was issued to the Spanish media for today's meeting:

In respect of the so-called "Special touristic action plan of inspection and control of establishments or accommodation units and the diagnosis of places exploited touristically without prior communication of starting activity or lacking authorisation" being carried out by the Inspection and Fines Department of the Canarian Government's Board of Touristic Regulation and Promotion (presidencia)

a meeting has been called on Thursday 15 March 2012 at 10am in the CDTCA Centre in Avda Las Jarcias opposite the IES in El Galeón.

The meeting will present the Association of those affected by the Canarian Tourism Regulation Law (Asociación de afectados por la ley de ordenación de turismo de Canarias) – ALOTCA – and will set out the reasons which have motivated the organizers of the event to create the association.

The above mentioned "action plan" is creating social alarm in Canarian touristic areas given that, according to official sources, more than 7,500 administrative procedures have been opened imposing fines on apartment owners and non-resident family investors, as well as small family businesses, fines ranging from at least €18,000 up to €60,000 in some cases. No family economy can withstand such a level of sanction at the present time.

Although this campaign of sanctions, unprecedented since the passing of Tourism Regulation Law 7/1995, has a commendable objective (control of accommodation units without licence or in irregular situation), it was not preceded by any information campaign and is therefore creating a state of mind among foreign investors that is worrying given the government's disproportionate punitive level (€18,000 minimum fine for an apartment in an irregular situation).

The existing current legal framework in these islands and the touristic moratorium in the concession of new licences prevents the legalization of these units. In turn, the disappearance, liquidation or insolvency of previous operators of touristic apartments have placed foreign investors and apartment owners in a marginal position without possibility of regularization.

Indeed, the autonomous Government appears to have opted for a protectionist "all inclusive" model of tourism offered in the main by the hotels in the tourist areas, but it has not taken into account that this model is extremely damaging for small family businesses (restaurants, taxis, shops etc.,) which depend on the tourism of those who prefer to rent apartments privately.

For their part, some companies operating with exploitation licences in the touristic apartment market offer their services to owners through contracts with intolerable and abusive conditions since, protected by the unity of exploitation principle, they are operating in a sector of the market that rewards and encourages a monopoly.

In the midst of a global recession and with a property market crisis without precedent in the recent history of these islands, when there are ever decreasing numbers of foreign investors prepared to buy property here, and in an economy that is already suffering, all we needed was a plan of this magnitude (7,500 inspections carried out mainly on the internet) to give such a devastating message to foreigners.

Before this is exposed in the foreign media we need to raise the awareness of the relevant authorities so that they apply the power of the law with restraint and in accordance with the social reality of our islands.

Our association considers that it is possible to seek a consensual solution with the Canarian touristic authorities which will benefit all sectors which are threatened (touristic apartment owners, hoteliers, agencies, taxis, shopkeepers, etc.), and for this reason we have asked them repeatedly to meet us. To date, these requests have been ignored by the administration.

Continuing with this process of fines will produce an unprecedented exodus of investors as well as the desertification of some touristic areas which cannot compete legally with the hotels.

Association of those affected by the Canarian tourism regulation law
Asociación de afectados por la ley de ordenación de turismo de Canarias – ALOTCA

[fifi]

Re: Illegal letting lobbying association – ALOTCAhttp://www.thetenerifeforum.com/showthread.php?104252-Illegal-letting-lobbying-association-%E2%80%93-ALOTCA&s=749192024c09f06f6712eff833d109c0&p=496155#post496155

    The public meeting to introduce the Association of those affected by the Canarian Tourism Regulation Law (Asociación de afectados por la ley de ordenación de turismo de Canarias – ALOTCA) was held in the Costa Adeje Tourist Development Centre this morning. It was very well attended, with almost every seat in a room for around 150 taken. The panel comprised the original members of the association, namely Maria Ereza Blasco (president), Santiago Saenz and José Escobedo (secretaries), Paul Ruane and myself. We were pleased to see present, and to count on the support of, the tourism councillors of both Arona and Adeje: these are very much on board and will be taking part with the association in discussions with Turismo. We were also gratified to see journalists there from the local Spanish press and Island Connections.

    The meeting was opened by José introducing the concept of the association, and reiterating the latest situation on the appeals. One of several defences offered by the lawyers was that an internet advert in its own right proved nothing, neither that a property had been let, nor even that it had been offered for let, which is what the law specifically prohibits. This was because no proof could be provided that any given owner had placed an advert online. Turismo's response was that they did not accept any of the arguments but were prepared to reduce the fines by €3,000. José then referred to a letter received only this morning from Turismo replying to a list of ten further arguments against the law, drawn up as part of the appeals process. These arguments included the fact that the enforcement of the legislation would cause, and was causing, a flood of properties on the market; that fines would reduce owners ability to pay their community fees; that it was having a negative effect far wider than just those being fined, and was affecting the likes of restaurants, taxi drivers, etc.; that people were being deterred from coming to Tenerife at all ... and so on. Turismo's response was that illegal activity was damaging Tenerife's tourism, that the Government's stated and confirmed aim was to maximise the benefit to official tourism, and that all the items on the list were irrelevant and neither the responsibility nor problem of Turismo.

    There is clearly, at present, no chance of a change of heart, and it was the feeling that this was the case, even before this morning's letter arrived, that fed the need for the formation of the association. The president of the association said that current tourism legislation was obsolete and did not reflect the current situation. The afectados, she said, were not just apartment owners, but everyone involved in tourism in the wider sense, i.e. businesses, gestors, estate agents, taxis, restaurants, etc – the whole of south Tenerife's economy lived on tourism.

    Paul Ruane then spoke about Los Gigantes and how he had recently asked a visiting friend if he wanted him to find accommodation. The friend had replied that he was staying in Abama. Paul said this was of course fine, but stressed to the meeting how it would be very different if he was an hotelier with a friend wanting to stay in a private apartment or villa. He would have had to say this was illegal and his friend was not allowed to do so. The boot most definitely wouldn't fit the other foot, he said. He stressed that the association is not fighting anyone, including the hotels. We are not seeking enemies, he said, but looking to solve a problem. We understand the need to protect tourism but we also need to encourage tourism. He referred to the petition which will shortly be available online: under Spanish legislation, if 15,000 signatures are collected, an application can be made to modify or change a law. This is a recognized Spanish legal procedure but has to be applied for. This application is now in process. As soon as it is available, I will post links to it in as many places as possible, and the journalist from Island Connections said she would ensure it was in her paper as well.

    I then read out a selection of comments that have been made on my website which reflected the damage being done to Tenerife by this enforcement, and the fear and anger which it has generated – as I said, generated among one of Tenerife's main tourist markets by those who are supposed to be promoting tourism.

    Santiago then read out the articles of the association. These are lengthy and I only have an original draft to hand anyway, so I can't reproduce them here right now. I'll make them available when I can. In brief, though, they refer to our stated aim to make the law, and the damage being caused by the way it is being enforced, as widely known as possible through the press and through meetings, and to try to negotiate a consensual way forward that benefits Tenerife as a whole; to protect the rights and interests of everyone involved in tourism in Tenerife; to guarantee the right of ownership, use and enjoyment of property by owners under both the Spanish Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and to exercise the right to petition to modify the law to achieve the above.

    The meeting was then opened to the floor. (next post) ...





Default Re: Illegal letting lobbying association – ALOTCA

    The tourism councillors had to leave at this point for other meetings, but already had a very good idea through previous briefings of the types of issues that would arise, and which did indeed arise. I hope I'll at least convey the gist of the questions and answers, though these parts of such meetings are inevitably confused at times.

    Q: will there be a cost for membership?
    A: We are at the early stages with the association. The papers still have to be presented in Madrid, and at that point we will call another meeting. We will decide then whether there will be a cost, and if so, how much.

    Q: Is there/will there be resistance to the association from, e.g. sole agents, residents?
    A: The association does not directly affect residential complexes: illegal letting is a different issue. We are seeking to help everybody in order to benefit Tenerife, and sole agents who operate well will have nothing to fear.

    Q: Do residents need to fear that the association seeks to allow tourism on their complexes?
    A: Many residential complexes want to introduce touristic lets, and if they do not, then the law supports them. Ideally, in our view, residential complexes should be allowed to decide for themselves. If the majority of owners in a residential complex do or do not want tourism in their complex then we feel that this is their decision to make. We are not remotely trying to introduce or legalise tourism in residential complexes that do not want this. The aim is to quash threats, and it has to be said that those threats include some made by residents, e.g. insisting that only owners can use their own apartments.

    Q: Has the association drafted new legislation if it is seeking to change the law?
    A: We are seeking to modify the law, not redraft it in its entirety, but even so, we are at too early a stage and cannot yet know the extent to which modifications will be possible, nor the amount of support the association will have. At an appropriate time, however, we will draft new legislation if this is needed.

    Q: Where is the petition?
    A: As soon as the association has a significant number of members, a website will be set up for an online petition. This is a recognized procedure in Spain, and an application has to be made. This application has now been made and is in process. The link will be made as widely available as possible, certainly on my website and in Island Connections. Those signing the petition will need to provide their name and NIE as is standard in Spanish petition procedure.

    At this point concern was expressed over providing such details, with some present worried that such information would give the Government a hit list to target. The president stressed that this was the only way under Spanish law that a petition would work, and that data protection laws meant people weren't endangered. There was continuing concern, however, and there were some suggestions that passport numbers might be sufficient. This will of course be clarified when the petition is ready for signing. Meanwhile, I'll repeat here what I said at this point at the meeting. This petition will not just be signed by people who are letting, whether illegally or not. Hopefully, it will contain the details of many Spanish and Canarians too, most of whom will be affected in other ways, i.e. by their businesses suffering. There will also be signatures from residents who want clarity on their own residential complex status; from people who want to buy here but who are afraid to proceed with the situation as it is; and from people who just don't want to stay in hotels, particularly all-inclusive ones. The names on the list will not indicate a particular interest in letting, and the inspectors will know this. I also made the point that the current inspectors are fully stretched in any case, and that they have enough internet adverts to keep them occupied ... and that a name and NIE on a petition aren't evidence of any action, let alone an illegal one. Moreover, even if they were to try to connect such information with illegal letting they would still need to find a related advert, and if such an advert existed they would be likely to find it anyway.

    Q: Could the case not be taken to the Court of Human Rights because the current law is discriminatory?
    A: The association could, eventually, take this route if there was enough support but we would hope to achieve our aims before getting that far down the line.

    There was some discussion as to whether the law actually was discriminatory, with varying opinions. Certainly I know myself of nationalities other than British who have been fined.

    Q: Someone who looks after apartments on an ex touristic/timeshare complex asked what she could do now that the timeshare company has ceased operating there.
    A: There was some dispute over this. The sole agent on Paloma Beach, John Parkes, said that the complex was therefore dormant touristic and that a sole agency could be created if 50+1% of the owners agreed to appoint one. The president of the association disagreed with this, and said it was not so simple. John said that he had spoken with the Cabildo very recently and had this confirmed, but Maria reiterated that there was more involved than this. Certainly John has had this information from the Tenerife Cabildo, but Maria is ex-Turismo (Government) so it seems to me possible that the Cabildo has the requirements as detailed by John, but that the Government might have additional rules. I am not in a position to judge this myself.

    Q: Why should tourists be allowed to change the law of a country they're just visiting?
    A: I said that I imagined there would be serious resistance from some quarters to being described as tourists. People who have invested significant amounts of money in the island over many years, who support local businesses, who employ local professionals – these people will consider themselves as far more involved with Tenerife than as simply tourists.

    Q: What is a tourist anyway?
    A: There were several answers at this point with panel members seeing various interpretations to the question apart from the purely factual. In the end I spoke to what seemed to be behind the question, namely whether a contract of three months was the defining line between touristic and residential letting. As I said, urbanistic law allows for short and long term rental contracts. Long term ones are for a year or more, and deemed residential. Short term ones are for any period under a year, and are for specific purposes, i.e. not residential. As such, Turismo have told us that they could deem any such contracts to be touristic, but would not in fact take any action against short term lets of three months or more, even though this period is not defined in the law itself.

    Q: Is the association not actually going into battle against the hotels?
    A: We are not seeking to be opponents to the hotels themselves, but having said that, the association is the first real voice to speak against the hotel association, Ashotel, which has such influence at high levels. We don't view it as the primary focus, however. First and foremost, rather than battling anyone, we are trying to help all those with an interest in Tenerife.

    The meeting came to an end at this point and as people started to head for the door, we asked them to come back to sign up to the association to coordinate future actions if they wanted to do so. I fear there might have been some confusion in this respect, and think that some people could have thought they were signing the petition. To be clear: the petition will be online, and will be available as soon as possible. What people signed today was the association affiliation. Hopefully most were clear on this point, but if anyone thought they were signing the petition, please be aware that you will actually need to sign it when it is available. As far as signing for the association is concerned, however, I will shortly have a form available on my website.

    As I said above, we will call another meeting as soon as we have the paperwork back from Madrid, and I'll update, of course, if there is any further information in the meantime. JAA

[waggy]

quote:Originally posted by appy ammer

press end doh!

AA, All I've got is 3 buttons after the time and date and a 'go to top' button on the right.

[isleswing]

The button on your keyboard that says 'End' on it

[waggy]

Doesn't appear to have one, Islewing, it's a mini mac with a mac keyboard.
I've found the 'go to end' button though, it's after the name of the last poster on the topics board.

[fifi]

Hi Waggy, I had a google for you. Have a look and see if this works for you.... http://brokensecrets.com/2011/01/10/finding-home-and-end-on-a-mac-keyboard/

[waggy]

Thanks, fifi, but WOW - if I press the home key and control it takes me out of Safari and Google.

[appy ammer]

and the forum, thats the idea;) hee hee

[isleswing]

quote:Originally posted by waggy

Doesn't appear to have one, Islewing, it's a mini mac with a mac keyboard.
I've found the 'go to end' button though, it's after the name of the last poster on the topics board.

So THAT's what the little arrow is for!!

Thanks

[fifi]

The first case of a person who was fined €18,000 for advertising his bungalow for rent on a website having the fine recinded when it was appealed is being discussed on this link.  It will be interesting to see what happens after this. http://www.thetenerifeforum.com/showthread.php?104252-Illegal-letting-lobbying-association-%E2%80%93-ALOTCA/page2&s=d965f50687184ecbc78434909176560d

[Cameron]

Interested to see that the person concerned was in a word 'informed' on.This i believe is where the majority of the information obtained by the local touristic departments is obtained, with too much emphasis being placed on internet advertising.For a few reasons.

1  That after a conversation with the big cheese at holiday lettings, they categorically stated that they have never at any time been approached for information on clients by any official Canarian department. And due to strict data protection laws would not be at liberty to reveal anything anyway unless it was an extemely serious case, probably unrelated to renting.
2  In a Janet Anscome article it states that it is highly unlikely, maybe even impossible for any interaction between the touristic departments and other bodies incuding the Hacienda. So no inf from there then.
3 Even if they surf the websites for details it would be very hard to differentiate between one apartment and another on a complex given the fact they all look more or less the same.

Which leaves  the info arriving from a bit closer to home.

[gusangus]

The boletins actually state where they got  information from  the internet, With 7500 fines issued thats a lot of unhappy residents complaing about illegal lets.and if you follow the trend of boletins they are inspecting all the bars as well so who is complaining about them? .to get the number of any apartment all they have to do is acsess the land registry data base. which they have to anyway to find out if the complex is residential or turistic and enter the contact name that is given on the internet and the data base will come up with all relevant information date bought nie numbers etc etc  most properties on the internet have numbers or indentifying information on them, and as they are investigating law breaking the data protection act does not come into it as that would be withholding information and obstructing the process of law.

[gusangus]

oops

[fifi]

The interesting thing about this case is that they enforced the expiration date due to a backlog of cases.

Translated from the Boletin.... (original case)

He announced that, in accordance with the provisions of art degrees. 42 of Law 30/1992 on the Legal Regime of Public Administrations and Common Administrative Procedure, as amended by Law 4/1999 of 13 January, and art degrees. 4 of Decree 190/1996 of August 1, regulating the procedure for the exercise of sanctioning powers in tourism and tourism inspection, the deadline set for the resolution and notice of this procedure is 6 months, after which, expiration occurs.

Translated from the Boletin....(the appeal case)....

Having regard to the proposal made by the Instructor of the disciplinary proceedings recorded and the records on it, and because of the slow steps in the practice of notifications to expedientado and may not proceed at all times with sufficient speed in processing due the body of existing work in this Administrative Unit, and made all possible means available, there has been the expiration of the probe, according to the provisions of Articles 4 and 6 of Decree 190/1996 of August 1, regulatory procedure for the exercise of sanctioning powers in tourism and tourism inspections, and compliance with the provisions of Article 44.2 of Law 30/1992 of 26 November on the Legal Regime of Public Administrations and Common Administrative Procedure


There may be further appeal though....

RESOLVE: (from appeal case)

Declare the forfeiture of the procedure and the disciplinary file, ordering the Service Inspection and Sanctions, within their plans, turn to the establishment inspection recorded in order to check the status of it.

This resolution does not end the administrative route, and it fits lodge an appeal before the Hon. Mr. President of the Canary Islands, within one month from the day following its notification, in accordance with the provisions of articles 114 and following of Law 30/1992 of 26 November, Legal Regime of Public Administrations and Common Administrative Procedure, as amended by Law 4/1999 of 13 January (BOE No 12 of 14.1.99), and without prejudice to any other remedies that may be made.

In the event that the appellant has a representative and it is shown that representation must be given power of attorney to record reliable, either notarized or certified copy prior alignment or certifying the photocopy with the original, according to the provisions in Article 32 of Law 30/1992 of 26 November on the Legal Regime of Public Administrations and Common Administrative Procedure, as amended by Law 4/1999 of 13 January (BOE No 12 of 01/14/99 .) - Santa Cruz de Tenerife, January 31, 2012. - The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Ricardo Fernandez de la Puente Armas.