El Hierro

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by fifi

I told you it was a fascinating subject.[]

I do think the thread would improve immeasurably if both you and Jand could summarise in your own words the main point of the post and then just paste the link to the source.It would make the thread much easier to read.Just a suggestion.......

[jand]

Kevin

Most of our sources are from Spanish sites if we just post the links then it will all be in Spanish.

Is it not easier for people to read in English the posts .

I dont see how we can improve the site when there have been over 19000 hits (read posts).

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by jand

Kevin

Most of our sources are from Spanish sites if we just post the links then it will all be in Spanish.

Is it not easier for people to read in English the posts .

I dont see how we can improve the site when there have been over 19000 hits (read posts).

Everyone has Google Translate Jand.We're not stupid.....but to cut and paste so much mistranslated information is,in my opinion.

[fifi]

Based on these charts and the fact that 5.5 million cubic metres of material have been emmitted in only four days a severe VE13 eruption is expected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Explosivity_Index
              ............................


Not everyone has the time or the inclination to translate everything before they read it on the Forum Kevin. I will continue to post as I usually do and highlight the important bits  for those that dont have the time to read a full article leaving the option there for those that do want to read it all.

When the articles are a bit repetitive I usually do a synopsis of the situation.

[jand]

Kevin

Stop getting on your high horse I did not call anybody stupid or infact would want to.

I have windows7 on my computer and use the translator that is preloaded on my computer for my translations.

I will continue to post as I have done.

[kevin2003]

[woe10]

quote:Originally posted by jand

Kevin

Stop getting on your high horse I did not call anybody stupid or infact would want to.

I have windows7 on my computer and use the translator that is preloaded on my computer for my translations.

I will continue to post as I have done.

  So there !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SurfJames]

quote:Originally posted by fifi

I told you it was a fascinating subject.[]

It is facinating - really fascinating. When you look at that little pimple on the seabed that has caused so much meyhem in the water, imagine what it must have been like when the Canaries were originally formed? It must have been like Hell on Earth!

I'll make a prediction - this thing is not over yet. I bet my botton Euro, that it will blow it's top soon !!

[SurfJames]

quote:Originally posted by kevin2003

[][][]

Keep them coming Kev. I think we have a smilar sense of humour matey!

[SurfJames]

quote:Originally posted by jand

Kevin

Stop getting on your high horse I did not call anybody stupid or infact would want to.

I have windows7 on my computer and use the translator that is preloaded on my computer for my translations.

I will continue to post as I have done.

You're cool jand - so no worries. I really appreciate your efforts on this thread. One of the best ever imho.[]

[SurfJames]

There's just been a 4.6 Earthquake - strongest yet.

Just watch this space!!!

[IsThisForumStillGoingWow]

Kevin..I think I love you...you got it to page 4..we don't have to read all those rabid postings by jand anymore....ooohhhhh wait... bet she's going to post another 12 one after other after the other.....

[Florence]

quote:Originally posted by fifi

Based on these charts and the fact that 5.5 million cubic metres of material have been emmitted in only four days a severe VE13 eruption is expected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Explosivity_Index
              ............................


Not everyone has the time or the inclination to translate everything before they read it on the Forum Kevin. I will continue to post as I usually do and highlight the important bits  for those that dont have the time to read a full article leaving the option there for those that do want to read it all.

When the articles are a bit repetitive I usually do a synopsis of the situation.

A synopsis of the situation will be fabulous fifi.  And your sources are always good - nothing from nostradamos.com, etc., etc,.  We like information, not misinformation.

[SurfJames]

quote:Originally posted by Florence

quote:Originally posted by fifi

Based on these charts and the fact that 5.5 million cubic metres of material have been emmitted in only four days a severe VE13 eruption is expected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_Explosivity_Index
              ............................


Not everyone has the time or the inclination to translate everything before they read it on the Forum Kevin. I will continue to post as I usually do and highlight the important bits  for those that dont have the time to read a full article leaving the option there for those that do want to read it all.

When the articles are a bit repetitive I usually do a synopsis of the situation.

A synopsis of the situation will be fabulous fifi.  And your sources are always good - nothing from nostradamos.com, etc., etc,.  We like information, not misinformation.

I think I owe you an apology - Florence. No hard feelings. xx

[jand]

At 0444 there was an earthquake in the Atlantic Ocean between the east coast of Tenerife and the west coast of Gran Canaria.

As far as I understood all the islands were seperate.

Could it be now the magma is reaching under all the islands?

http://www.01.ign.es/ign/layoutIn/volcaDetalleTerremotos.do?evid=1111982&zona=2

[jand]

www.laprovincia.es

Translated

I am concerned over an eruption in the North.... Statements to the Provincia-Diario of palms, María José Blanco Director of IGN in the Canary Islands (JR)

PEDRO GUERRA
IRON (Special Envoy) - A month after the start of the eruption, everything has gone as planned?


-Well, given that at the beginning we all knew that there was a movement of magma but we did not know where could emerge when we saw the seismicity of deep focus and we knew that it would be in the South. Then became aware of the direction of the Pevolca and the measures taken were after information of the Scientific Committee. From there has everything as planned but, since then, July 18, we knew nothing of what has been triggered. We now know that the phenomenon is evolving within the predictable, but in the medium or long term we do not know how is going to happen all.


-In what has surprised the volcano in El Hierro scientists?


-To the scientists, but to the Pevolca was really surprised. It is a plan that was designed more for an eruption on the ground that an underwater eruption and here we are facing a phenomenon which was not covered although it is true that if we look at the funds of the Canary Islands we see that they are full of cones and there is a high probability that a rash develops at sea, such as this.


-The volcano has expelled up to now three types of materials. Is this normal in an underwater eruption?


-Yes. When samples are taken there to date to see how evolving an eruptive phenomenon, which will have different phases and will expel various materials.


-Do you think that there is explosive in this volcano, as says the University of Barcelona?


-When a sample is taken, as expected is to be send in different laboratories with different technologies allow you to confirm the result of the analysis. This is what he has done since the Pevolca and the results obtained are mostly it seems that the result gives us a trachyte. This means that he has a degree of burstiness but is not the same as a rhyolite, whose degree of burstiness is greater. This does not mean that the work has been done by the University of Barcelona is incorrect, but everything must be assessed as a whole.


-I.e. you currently have no indications that the iron exists rhyolite.


-No. In fact, El Hierro, on surface, are deposits of trachyte but not rhyolite. We have at least not found.


-By the amount of magma estimated in El Hierro, what is the worst possible scenario?


-The truth is that I do not like to talk about the worst-case scenario, but the most likely. The eruption is now in the South and is kept open the likelihood that opens a centre emitting in the North, also in the sea, in the South. Talk about the worst-case scenario it makes little sense because it can alarm the population unnecessarily.


-The eruption on Earth is ruled out?


-No, what happens is that the probability is very low. The scene is now, with a rash in the sea, in the South, following probability that another eruption will occur in the North, also in the sea, and a third, remote, that an eruption will occur on Earth.


-Be continues to believe that the eruption of the calm sea, in the South, not going to be explosive?


-If you follow the issuing Center with the position which has now, growth is so slow that probably it won't reach the bounds that have been mentioned if it is to have an explosive rally on surface. The first few hundred meters can be grown with relative ease, but then to grow twenty feet you need such large volume that it would need a very long time eruption at the current rate of emission. Then, stays long in time, or increases the rate of emission, or is closer to earth so that it can produce a more explosive phase. Today is not likely.


-On the bathymetry that made the scientific ship Ramon Margalef, you can have an idea if the volcanic edifice has been able to cut the distance with respect to the surface?


-Ramón Margalef will now launch a campaign whose first mission is to repeat the bathymetry that was made last month. On 24 October, bathymetry gave a building about 100 meters in height and 28, four days later, was that it remained more or less the same height, but had a collapse of a flank of the building.


-How are the peaks of instability which shows the signal from one day to another tremor interpreted?


-As a change in the issuing Center. The mouth increases or decreases, and also the rate of emission. If you have a rate constant emission and emitting Centre constant the tremor is constant.


-By magma estimated there under El Hierro the eruption could last more than one year?


-We not only the magma that is available in the South; the sism

[jand]

This looks as if the earthquake at 0608 this morning  was on land again.


http://www.01.ign.es/ign/layoutIn/sismoUltimoTerremoto.do?zona=1

[jand]

www.laprovincia.es

Translated.

Scientists are preparing for another possible eruption on the island of El Hierro

CO2 levels are very high, 1,400 tons per day, when 900 is an abnormal rate - the island feels an earthquake of 4.6 degrees on the Richter, the most powerful scale since the beginning of the volcanic crisis

No one think that this is stopped". María José Blanco, Director of the National Geographic Institute (IGN), already deck: "the process is underway and the scenario of an eruption in the North takes body". While a standstill accompanied yesterday day on El Hierro, all indications that are measured in a volcanic eruption suggest that the island could produce a new eruptive process different from which is underway in La Restinga (South), which may occur in the North border. For its part, on the night of Thursday to Friday the island felt a tremor of 4.6 degrees on the Richter, the most powerful scale since the beginning of the seismic crisis.


Following an extension in time of earthquakes in the North of the island, which have also increased in intensity gradually and is still expected to exceed 4.6 degrees on the Richter, the theory of tectonic adjustment scale result of the eruption that occurs in the South is already almost ruled out and the scientists are preparing for a possible new eruption in the most populated municipality in the islandFrontera, with more than four thousand inhabitants.


Magma there are plenty of herreñas deep for thinking that volcano looking output, too, for a place different from La Restinga. If at first it was thought there could be some fifty million cubic metres of magmatic material under the Earth's crust, the new calculations indicate that under El Hierro can be up to a cubic km of magma, i.e. billion cubic metres, which feed two different processes located in horizontal: one to a depth of between 20 and 25 km away and the other at an altitude of between 10 and 15 kilometers. More feasible theory today is that they are independent, although they may join at a certain time. Even the recharge of magmatic material from the depths could generate an eruption which lasts enough time, can that for more than one year.

The levels of CO2 in the insular building are very large. If last week's technicians from the Instituto Volcanológico de Canarias (Involcan) numbered 1,200 tons of emission of carbon dioxide per day, a figure 3.5 times higher than normal on the island, the latest data collected on the day on Wednesday they threw a rate of more than 1,400 tonnes per day. Above 900 is already considered an abnormal figure.


Also the earthquakes in border, although they have decreased slightly in intensity, foreshadow that magma is moving forcefully into the depths. Yesterday, of greater magnitude occurred at the 18.31 afternoon, with 3.5 on the Richter scale and was felt by the entire population of the island. Only between six and seven p.m. yesterday, coinciding with a considerable increase in the signal of tremor, border were registered in 13 different earthquakes.


In the South, where the rash is located in the calm sea, according to confirmed yesterday the Government of the Canary Islands following the analysis carried out by Involcan, the emission of gases shows a downward trend on Sunday. If on Sunday in zone of eruptive mouth, at La Restinga, CO2 threw a rate of 54.160 tonnes per day, Monday the index fell to 15.446 tons per day and on Tuesday until the 12.718. This rate is obviously rather than which arises by Earth, as measured emission in an eruptive already open mouth, whereas in the insular building, at the moment, there is no eruptive mouth open. The same happened with hydrogen sulfide (H2S), which over recent days registered a downward trend.


Surface water PH has also changed, and has gone from a rate of 7,97 surface 5,45 to five meters deep. "This disminu-ing of three units of PH assumes that the medium is enduring a hundred thousand times higher than normal concentration of acids".


All indications are on the table of volcanologists working in El Hierro. Now only lack the volcano decides to leave.

[jand]

Joke is a resident on El Hierro and has been reporting live for earthquake-report.com.

She is not a scientist but her reports have been invaluable as to what  she is seeing and what is actually going on.

Update 11/11 – 10:44 UTC:
 - Joke reported that a new circle is showing from the higher areas of the island. She is now at the Naos mountain 150 meter above the Las Calmas sea.  If something important will be seen there, our audience will know it within minutes.

[jand]

From Avcan FB


The Steering Committee of the PEVOLCA meets today (12 h) to analyse the evolution of the eruptive process in CECOI of Valverde. (IGN)

[TripleH]

Thats what I meant in an earlier post when I said "NOt being funny but would it be easier if jand and Fifi just put up the links for people to read things direct. Would save an awful lot of usage on this site"

Also if people use Google Chrome it automatically translates the page for you

[fifi]

My sources are La Provincia, Diario El Hierro,CSIC, ABC news, Fox news,El Mundo, Canarias 7, Twitter with various contacts, Shaking earth, Emergencias el Hierro, RTVE ,Presican, Prensa El Hierro, El pais, La Vanguardia,IGN, AVCAN, Spanish Volcanology association, Sat24, NASA, Raymond Matabosc, Earthquake report, Salaperiodistas, IGME,  IEO, Association of Geologists, AEMET, Canary Islands Oceanic Platform  and several others. You will find links to most of these on previous posts and can find and translate all of what they say at your leisure Triple H. If you find any interesting articles hopefully you will post them here for us to see.

                 ..............

Webcam online at the moment. Look out for white patches (or dark areas if it erupts)  between the mountain peaks as that is the eruption area.http://www.ustream.tv/channel/el-hierro1 Other webcam not in operation yet as far as I know.

                 ..............

[jand]

Wow Fifi with all my sources aswell we seem to have the whole world covered dont think anything will get passed by us both.

FIJA SUPER SLEUTHS !!!!

[fifi]

I think so jand. []

Some  important things to point out because of all the moaning about a lot of posts ....

1. The Canarian government are trying to hide information so as not to alarm people.They are trying to keep tourist numbers up.(We post their version of the story)

2 The Canarian Government have lied about information publicly inorder to cover their mistakes and were caught caught doing so.  (We look for alternative sources for what they say to see if they are similar)

3. There is a falling out between the Spanish and Canarian Volcanologists. Both have a different opinion.(Both opinions are posted)

4.The Scientists (who are on the payroll) are not allowed to discuss anything publicly without it being passed now. Therefore we need to also rely on information from other people ....ie the Islanders and Scientists and Volcanologists who are NOT being paid for their opinion.(Other opinions which are posted)

5.a Originally the estimation of the mouth of the volcano which was based on pure speculation was given as 1 metre in width. It is 120 times wider.

b The calculation of magma given was wrong. It is 20 times greater than was originally calculated based on the "assumed size"

c Seismic station information was incorrect and therefore most data up to now was incorrect and new reports which may seem identical to those that do not remember the original, may seem boring, but is important and valid information at this time. (another reason why there is a lot of repetition)

6. The Ramon Margalef ship can NOT enter eruption areas. There is speculation about whether their information is the true picture of what is happening. It is strange that a research vessel which has a scientific team on board which is MAPPING the area for volcanos has NEVER mentioned the distance from land to the eruptive area. I have contacted the Government and the Cabildo asking for the distance and also Canarias 7 and not been given an answer. So have many other Scientists.

Proof of the above has been given in previous posts.


Yes it may be a bit long winded to read a lot of posts but shows the true picture of what is going on and it requires a lot of interest, patience and time to do the research, translations and find the sources .

Im off my soap box again now.[]

[jand]

Update 11/11 - 10:44 UTC:
- Jose Manuel Soria, the candidate of the Partido Popular for the presidency of the Canary Islands (elections to be held on November 20), is currently campaigning at El Hierro and wants to visit Montaña Naos to have a view at the eruption area. He may not be aware of all the journalists he will find at this viewing spot ...
The evacuated people at El Hierro as well as the business sector are highly dependent on aid from the Canary Islands government.
- Paulino Rivero, e memeber of the PSOE, is the current president of the Canary Islands and apart of a lot of promises, only little has been done to help the people of La Restinga and Las Puntas. Mr. Rivera has now approved bills for direct aid to business owners employing personnel.
- The central government has now given a period of 10 days to fill in the necessary documents to obtain aid

[jand]

It seem the scientific community are arguing again:

The volcanic crisis that shakes the island of El Hierro yesterday shook the offices of scientific institutions that monitor the output of the magma, in one episode of the escalation of disagreements between researchers and administrations by the technical management of this trance. Yesterday, when it was a month of eruption, the Centro Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (CSIC) organised a meeting between scientists from institutions with competences on volcanic risk for pooling official data collected by the Committee of crisis that coordinates from El Hierro the Canary Islands Government. A meeting that has sat as a salt in the open wound of the scientific bodies of the archipelago, which from the outset have been neglected by researchers of the CSIC and of the national geological Institute (IGN), designated as official technical advisers of the Committee of crisis (Pevolca).

The director of the Agency Canaria on research, innovation and information society (Aciisi), Juan Ruiz Alzola, yesterday sent a letter of protest to the President of the CSIC, Rafael Rodrigo, with copy to the Secretary of State for research, Philippe Pétriz, in which criticized the holding of this meeting because it involves pooling these data among a small group of scientists, and out of the body expressly created to coordinate these data. On 21 October the Canarian Government created a Scientific Committee that would serve to improve relations between all the agencies involved, to share the collected data and build bridges between Madrid and the Canary Islands. The Chairperson of this Committee, Andrea Brito, described the call of the CSIC's "unfortunate, the less" since there is already a body, which she chairs, to carry out this work coordinated knowledge of the different areas involved in the management of earthquake and volcanic crisis. "One thing is to make a work-shop between scientists on a subject and another thing is to discuss on the management that he is doing from the Pevolca, when there is already a group created to this end, in which the own CSIC is represented," he regretted Brito, Director of the Instituto Tecnológico de Canarias (ITC).

At the end of the meeting on the campus of the Council, his Vice-President, Francisco Montero de Espinosa, was convinced that "it is inconceivable that there are conflicts" by a scientific meeting. According to the Vice-Chairman of the CSIC, dealt with "only" a meeting between experts to "make recommendations" and denied that there would be as a group with the capacity to make decisions. Even so, he left the door open to the call for further meetings of this group, if they changed the circumstances, to update its recommendations. Espinosa Montero said that he would call during the morning Andrea Brito "by an institutional detail, although it would not necessarily do so, to share with her conclusions".

The meeting convened by the Council was reached three conclusions. For starters, the Group of experts claimed will install more instrumentation in the North of the island to hear accurately tremor signal and discard that it should open a fissure in the area of El Hierro which volcanic material by a second focus is releasing. In addition, requested that further collecting material eruptive for your analysis.And finally, they claimed the Instituto Spanish of Oceanography (IEO) keep there shifted to the oceanographic vessel Ramon Margalef, sent to El Hierro at the request of the Government of the Canary Islands.

His idea is that the vessel continue making maps of seabed to follow the evolution of the volcano. "Researchers call to one or two bathimetrys per week, as that is concerned that the volcanic cone grows toward waters shortly deep, which could lead to an explosive eruption", explains Espinosa Montero who acknowledged that this proposal, as the previous ones, is not more than a suggestion that would have to be studied by the IEO.

This gathering of experts highlighted that he remains the deformation in the North of the island, up to 40 millimeters of warpage, which could indicate the existence of magma pressing to leave for a new Northern fissure. "Also could stay this way forever", explained the Vice-President of the CSIC, who pointed out that the majority of the experts present considered unlikely a second eruption under the waters of the Gulf.

In addition, was in common the result of the analysis of eruptive processes on El Hierro in the past 2,000 years. "According to this documentation", explained Espinosa Montero, "everything points to that the eruptive process is running out given the amount of magmatic material that has already expelled the volcano".

The meeting of the CSIC was attended by representatives of 11 scientific institutions; two Canary Islands, the University of La Laguna (ULL) and the oceanic platform of the Canary Islands (Plocan).Of these 11 institutions, six belong to the Coordinating Committee created by the Canary Islands, as IGN, own CSIC, the geological and mining (IGME) and the Spanish Institute of Oceanography (IEO), the Plocan and ULL. The Committee also with experts from the University of Las Palmas and the Instituto Volcanológico de Canarias (Involcan).

A suspended meeting
 The Canarian Committee had missed with an El tropezón. "The first meeting of this group in order to be set up and approve its rules of operation, November 3, had to be suspended because missed the representative of the CSIC, Joan Martí, by a prior commitment, and IGN, María José Blanco, who had to leave the meeting after aggravating the situation in El Hierro. ""It was difficult to take decisions if we could not count on the Pevolca," says Brito, so a second meeting was convened to November 14, which yesterday continued on foot and without that no one would have announced their absence.

On the other hand, the Involcan made public yesterday about new data indicating that you could be cooking is a new eruptive phase, that there was a new peak of CO2 emissions, that so far it has proved to be a signal nearly infallible to announce eruptions.In addition, the IEO detailed in the calm sea, which hosts the volcano within it, is coming to measure temperatures up to 16 degrees above normal records (15 degrees Celsius to 31 degrees). Levels of acidity of the water are still very high, with a ph of 5,45 (normal is and a concentration of 100,000 times higher than normal acids.

http://www.publico.es/ciencias/406318/guerra-civil-por-la-gestion-cientifica-de-el-hierro

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by jand

Wow Fifi with all my sources aswell we seem to have the whole world covered dont think anything will get passed by us both.

FIJA SUPER SLEUTHS !!!!

[jand]

Fifi just remember that out of over 19649 read posts there are only about 7 people moaning about the posts.

Which works out at a ratio of only 0.00035625 people complaining !!!

[fifi]

Great calculation skills there jand.[]

[jand]

Avcan

Map of the seismicity of the last 3 days, the most notable is that the seismicity is now more diffuse but continue some earthquakes in the Valley of the Gulf marine zone. In purple equal earthquakes or major 3.0 yesterday and today (4), well concentrated in the center of the ejambre in the Valley of the Gulf marine zone sea.


The earthquakes of today and those of the past days, become to align according to the NNW-SSE direction, aligned from the sea of the Gulf up to the area of eruption in the sea of the calm to la Restinga. Also there is another alignment destacalbe in n-S direction with the earthquakes of these last 48 hours and now passing just today by by the Summit of the Tanganasoga in and out for the Julán to the calm sea. (Henry).