Health care for illegals debate..........

[fifi]

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/14/inenglish/1344943098_516911.html

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/07/inenglish/1344359883_127476.html

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/10/inenglish/1344625923_903493.html

[KWC]

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/14/inenglish/1344943098_516911.html

This from the above link says it all really, in how cold and uncaring Humans are becoming:

He went on to say that "Spain is one of the few countries in the EU where medical attention is not denied to those in life-threatening situations," whilst "in the majority of countries around the world, a man who does not have the right to medical treatment will not be attended to whether he pays or not."

Sad reflection on the human race when we would stand back and watch someone die or suffer in pain.

[appy ammer]

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/14/inenglish/1344943098_516911.html

This from the above link says it all really, in how cold and uncaring Humans are becoming:

He went on to say that "Spain is one of the few countries in the EU where medical attention is not denied to those in life-threatening situations," whilst "in the majority of countries around the world, a man who does not have the right to medical treatment will not be attended to whether he pays or not."

go on then which civilised countrys you talking about???

Sad reflection on the human race when we would stand back and watch someone die or suffer in pain.

[fifi]

When I lived in New York there was no free health care for illegals. The Port Authority used to be full of homeless  people and psychiatric patients.  It was very upsetting to see how they were living. I dont know if it has changed any since.

[fifi]

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/20/inenglish/1345461242_150617.html

The Canary Islands have decided to go against the Spanish Government and continue treating illegal immigrants free of charge.

[Spike On Q]

Free of charge to the illegal immigrants - but that's OK "the government" pays the bill for any treatment required............OH NO "the government" is a virtual organisation that has no money of it's own - it only collects money from us via taxes ad re-distributes it - so that means you and me pay.

Sadly the pot seems to be ever shrinking which means less healthcare [along with other government services] for all of us - oh well I'm going back to my cave, hedgehog in mud for tea

[SheilaW]

Tell me: what exactly is the definition of an illegal immigrant? I assume it's someone who has absolutely no right to be here - is that right? Yet they've been granted health care rights up to now?

But now they are refusing to grant any sort of state health care to my husband, who has qualified for a "green NIE" as a legal resident, when I, his wife, am paying 250€ plus per month into the system as a self-employed "autonomo". Why is that? I am hoping to get this sorted, but it's an uphill battle at the moment. The changes brought in during July mean that they are trying to deny many EU citizens their rights. Whereas every member of a Spanish family, with just one member paying into the system, is guaranteed full health care, it seems that from July 2012 EVERY non-Spanish EU citizen must pay into the system to receive benefits.

If that proves to be the case (rather than being caused by my "assessor" having rubbed a state employee in the SS office up the wrong way - which is always possible), then it's in direct contravention of EU law, which states that citizens of other EU countries must have the same benefits as nationals. I'm damn sure that a Spanish wife can be a stay-at-home housewife without having to resort to private insurance, so my British husband should be able to be a stay-at-home house-husband and qualify for state health cover.

We were treated on a par with Dutch citizens when we lived in the Netherlands, and on a par with French citizens when we lived in France, and our assessor assured us it would be straightforward here. But that was before the mid-July amendment. I've contacted the EU helpline and I'm awaiting their reply.

Sorry, I realise this is somewhat off-topic, as there's no way my husband is "illegal", but it riles me to see that we are being denied our perfectly legitimate rights. If it turns into a real battle (and I'm prepared to battle for my rights, believe me), then I'll set up a separate thread.

[emmi]

Go for it Sheila!  I admire your tenacity and wish you every success.  Let us know how you get on.

[SheilaW]

Thanks, Emmi I'll certainly keep you posted!

[fifi]

Hi Sheila, I hope you manage to sort it out. There is a debate about it on a thread here if you would like to have a look. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=766723

[fifi]

The news in the sun are saying something different to what the El Pais article said Sheila. http://newsinthesun.com/

[Voldermort]

Ah the good old EU......dont hold yer breath folks.This debate and complaints to the EU is raging on the mainland. There the cost of treating EU Pensioners is massive and the the EU know full well that they will be bailing Spain out within the year. So they are encouraging Spain to cutback wherever they can. I would go as far as saying the EU are well aware of this healthcare ruling and are not about to force their hand.

     The EU only enforce what they want to and ignore whatever they dont.

[SheilaW]

Thanks for those links, fifi, they're both very useful. The second one confirms what I thought:

Unlike the British health system, Spain's equivalent of the NHS has qualifying criteria.

For EU citizens this means you have to prove entitlement, either as a pensioner, a worker paying National Insurance Contributions, (or be a registered dependant of someone who is), or be registered as unemployed.

So, I'm paying NIC and my husband is my dependent (don't worry, he's a modern man - he can deal with it! ). Where's the problem? We can both prove entitlement!

[fifi]

Good morning Sheila, I was rooting around on the net for you to try and find out more definite information. The Canaries as you know can decide to either adopt Spanish law or reject it but it does look like your husband is entitled as far as I can see for health care. If you want to run this website through Google translate there is some more information on it and also a Facebook page which you could join and hopefully get an exact answer to your question.

Just copy and paste this link into Google translate or similar.http://www.intersindicalsalud.com/modules.php?mod=portal&file=index

Google translate... http://translate.google.com/

[SheilaW]

Thanks for you help fifi. I don't think my husband can really be classed as an illegal immigrant - not when his wife's running a business in the country! On the other hand, it looks like he might be better off as one!

[Spike On Q]

It may be a good time for us all to check our "status" vis a vis Healthcare and other residential matter here in The Canaries [which may or may not be in the EU, who knows?] before the event

I know that although my treatment is carried out here in Fuerteventura by The Canarian Health Service, it is paid for by the British government through the EU clearing structure. The EU is only the agency and has nothing to do with the payments themselves which are drawn from the taxes and NI I paid throughout my working life in the UK

Just a reminder - when travelling to the UK, Canarian residents, i.e. people registered with The Canarian Health Service, can only claim emergency treatment from the NHS using a EHIC card [which in the case of UK pensioners is issued by the UK government]. Strange but true!

[Spike On Q]

PS Sheila, is your husband a "registered" dependent?
This did cause us a problem when my wife hit 60 and became a UK pensioner and I was only 63 so had to become a "registered" dependent of hers to get healthcare
However once that was sorted out at the Social Security office by the harbour and then the Health Centre at Gran Tarajal where we're registered, we've not had a problem
We had documentation from the UK Pensions people confirming this - but I don't know what you need to prove dependency here if you're not a retired person

[SheilaW]

PS Sheila, is your husband a "registered" dependent?

Certainly is time for us all to take stock and check on things, Spike. As for hubbie, I'm hoping I registered him as my dependent when I filled in the residency form, but as I'm a complete beginner in Spanish I may have registered him as my dog - I don't know!!! Kind of worrying, huh? :-)