advice on an interesting call with the bank today

[jill tie]

I had an email to call the bank (BancaMarch).  Long story short they are offering me a new rate
on our mortgage.  This will mean we will be approx 180 euro's  a month better off.  We are currently paying
about 550 pcm so a big saving.   The person i spoke with said something that got me thinking.
She said this is to stop us in the future claiming the money back?  She said the document has to be
signed by the end of the month.  I struggled to understand if she meant claiming back the saving
of 180 euro's form the end of the month going forward (IE in 6 months claiming 6 x 180) or putting a claim
in for over payments already made?  Hope this makes sense.  Has anyone else had anything like this happen?
We are currently on a fixed rate mortgage.

[jill tie]

I found this.  It may be useful to some

http://www.onthepulse.es/property/there-floor-clause-your-spanish-mortgage-agreement

[Johnrgby2]

Without sight of the actual document you are being asked to sign, it is difficult to offer any advice, I did read an article some time back which referred  to The mortgage Floor Clause, but my memory is a little sketchy, being the cynic I am I would suggest you take professional advice, as it would not be unlikely they want you to sign a new agreement and sign away your rights to a refund back to the beginning of the mortgage term.
Before I retired while I did not work directly for a ban,k but did work within the sector and you would be amazed what went on from 1995 until The authorities stepped in in 2009, so it is very likely there is some shenanigans going on. 

[gattaca66]

As Johnrgby2 says, this is very likely to do with the mortgage floor clause you will probably have in your current mortgage. Basically, it prevents your rate of interest payable falling below a defined 'floor' regardless of plummeting general interest rates. These have been successfully challenged and I believe lenders are being forced to remove them. You should be offered a more competitive rate without a floor, but it is possible your lender is offering you an additional discount if you sign away any right to claim back charges which were illegally made, a bit like the PPI issue plaguing UK banks. I'd agree with the previous comments, get legal advice before signing anything!

Good news, nevertheless, looks like you will be paying less!

[decho]

When I first read about this Mortgage Floor clause I was shocked. Although I don't have a mortgage I can quite understand why the banks might be trying to get you to sign your rights to a refund away. The PPI scandal in the UK has cost the banks (or UK Tax Payer) £27 Billion at the latest figures I could find and has prevented many from returning to profit. If customers with Spanish Mortgages all started to reclaim this successfully, surely the payments would be huge, more than big enough to bring the banks to their knees.....and would the Spanish Government step in to bail them out? Would be interested to hear other views....

[jill tie]

Thanks for the replies.   It is to do with the mortgage floor clause and the bank do want me to
sign away my rights to claim and they will drop the rate and lower my payments.  How generous
of them.  They miss sell then offer me what I should have had and expect me to be grateful? 

[TheCooler]

They deserve to be taken for every â,¬ you can get.Thieving so and so's.
They knew this clause was illegal ,and yet still kept it in place.

[Johnrgby2]

You have to remember they are banks, and the only difference between them and Dick Turpin is when Dick was robbing people he had the decency to wear a mask not a smile.

[jill tie]

I have an update.  I logged a complaint with the bank and requested they remove the floor clause and reimburse any over payments.  They took 6 weeks but have agreed to remove the clause (without me signing away any rights to compensation in the future).  They have not even responded to my request for over payments being given back.  The removal of the clause will save me approx 180 euro per month.  Any compensation going forward could possible be years down the line.  So if anyone else have the clause to their mortgage please complain and refuse to sign any rights for compensation in the future.

[TheCooler]

I have an update.  I logged a complaint with the bank and requested they remove the floor clause and reimburse any over payments.  They took 6 weeks but have agreed to remove the clause (without me signing away any rights to compensation in the future).  They have not even responded to my request for over payments being given back.  The removal of the clause will save me approx 180 euro per month.  Any compensation going forward could possible be years down the line.  So if anyone else have the clause to their mortgage please complain and refuse to sign any rights for compensation in the future.

Many thanks for the update.
Was your letter submitted at local branch level? Or to head office?

[scorpio1966]

Hi,
interesting post this.
I had an email from solbank/sabadell about a month ago asking me to sign up for a fixed mortgage.
i didnt feel comfortable signing over the net so asked for more info and if there were any clauses,since then a big silence.
we bought our place late 2009.
i am now looking at our mortgage paperwork and will be getting in touch with solbank.
Has anybody who banks with sabadell contacted them regarding there mortgage ?

[Elite of the forum]

Hi,
interesting post this.
I had an email from solbank/sabadell about a month ago asking me to sign up for a fixed mortgage.
i didnt feel comfortable signing over the net so asked for more info and if there were any clauses,since then a big silence.
we bought our place late 2009.
i am now looking at our mortgage paperwork and will be getting in touch with solbank.
Has anybody who banks with sabadell contacted them regarding there mortgage ?

We requested the paperwork and read through ,they wanted us to sign and hand in before 10th May but it just wasnt worth it we pay â,¬555 pcm the new rate was â,¬545  fixed for the term of the mortgage (10yrs left)wow really ,will risk the Euribor rate going up  and hope to get some compo ,maybe if they had offered us â,¬180 a month off for rest of term we would have taken it

[Curly131]

I had a similar e-mail from Banco sabadell and as I was visiting the apartment in April I arranged to see them at the office in Gran Alacant.
We have a floor and ceiling clause in our mortgage, the floor being 3.75% and they had offered me 3.5% on a fixed rate ( no notary necesary as it was a personal loan apparently) I mentioned the issue with banks being forced to remove the floor clause and pay compensation and they managed to get it down to an offer of 3.25%. I didnt take up the offer and am waiting to see how the situation unfolds but the Sabadell response is that the banks only have to remove the clause if you can prove that you didnt know it was there when you signed your mortgage agreement.
Hands up, we definitely knew about it as they even tried to sell us some insurance that would pay out if we ever approached the ceiling of 12%.
But as others have said banks dont give you something for nothing so offering a fixed rate lower than the floor does sound like a free lunch but we werent hungry enough to take them up on their kind offer. we will carry on paying the current arrangement and see what transpires, may take some time though.

[calculator]

The Spanish Supreme court has already decided that banks have to pay back the money from 2013. IT's up to the affected people to request it.

The delay is due to the fact that the matter has gone to Europe and Spain is waiting from a decision from the ECJ to determine if all monies from  the start date of the mortgage should be paid back.

that's what the banks are afraid of.

The decision is due anytime.

Finally, never forget that everyone in Spain, that includes Fuerteventura, is a thief and a liar. So don't believe anything that you are told unless you can verify it by reading the relevant law.

[appy ammer]

we bought in 2004 and sold in 2009 through sol bank, are we in for a windfall ?

[fifi]

  Time to invest in another business Appy. Your luck could be in again who knows.

I have been following this from the beginning and the advice from Adicae the Financial Consumer association is posted here.https://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afectadosclausulasuelo.org%2Fofertas-bancos.php&edit-text=&act=url Also you can see what the various banks have been offering their clients . To follow it from the beginning have a look on the Finance section of the Forum.

Good luck with it everyone.

[jill tie]

Hi All

A further update.  The bank quoted me a saving of !80 euro's.  It was in fact 110 Euro's per month.  They haven't responded to my question for compensation.
I have logged a further complaint which has been forwarded on.   To answer TheCoolers question this is all being done through my local branch (the lady i am dealing with is very helpful but not very well informed)  The bank has 6/8
weeks to respond which they didn't until I promoted them.  I only asked two questions and they just ignored one completely.   I have told them if they do not
respond then i will complain to the obudsman which i think is called defensor del cliente in Spain.   Appy in the Uk the banks have to keep records that are up to 7 years old (not sure about Spain) so
it may be worth it to request info know before you time out?   From the other responses it seems the banks are offering other deals that suit them.   That doesn't seem right maybe you tell them you want
the base rate?