Naked Rambling

[isleswing]

Stephen Gough, the man the press call 'The naked rambler' has finally been given a nationwide Anti Social Behaviour Order to stop him being naked in public. He is now required to cover his genitalia AND buttocks (no thongs, then) in public.

Not many will disagree that he'd become a nuisance, and something had to be done. I have no idea what BN and other groups' views are on this.

My understanding of current UK law is that one may be naked in public, 'except in a threatening manner, or causing alarm or distress'. I know my wording there will not be correct, but I think it's close enough, and certainly within the right meaning. 

There are many parallels between Gough's attitude and behaviour and some of the recent stories about Fuerteventura told on here.

I am sure that the Spanish laws on nudity are most likely worded in a similar way to ours, and can be used to stop behaviour that any particular police officer thinks inappropriate.

I'm not expressing a view here, but let's see what everyone else thinks.

[Voldermort]

Not sure what BN think about anything tbh but as far as Coast and Country are concerned (2nd biggest naturist club) most think he is a complete clown with a serious mental disorder. This idiot was him who was flying to Glasgow for one of his court appearances, when he went into the toilet and came out `sans cullottes` as they say  ...still he got to court on time at least.

     Gough needs mental health treatment, his nudity is a symptom of that. Still an embarrassment but he is nothing to do with naturism I`m very glad to say.

[MinRich]

Generally Naked in public would mean a Public Order offence and probably a Sec 5 offence . Not serious enough for a 4 , agravating factors like in a man in a Female changing room or around a kids playground might influence the charge and up it to a Sec 4

So covers males and females .

Also depends what else the nude person was doing , masturbating would aggravate the offence and make it a "lewd" act or similar word ! Would become and indecent exposure offence then .

Law is written by lawyers to earn money in the future for other lawyers to argue the toss !
Like a glazier who goes round breaking windows at night 

[lovethebeach]

I agree with Voldermort on the mental state of Gough. 
Its Goughs refusal to dress when asked to do so that kept getting him locked up (rightly so ).
Remember the law in Scotland does not give you the right to be naked , I thnk this was why he was originally arrested .

[bedouin]

Gough is an utter looney, and he's done huge damage to the naturist cause.

[Alex Heney]

Generally Naked in public would mean a Public Order offence and probably a Sec 5 offence .

Not under the law in England and Wales it wouldn't.

Which is why they never succeeded in convicting him of anything in England or Wales, and had to stop him by means of an ASBO.

The law is slightly different in Scotland, making it much easier to convict of Breach of the Peace(which is what they first got him under, followed by repeated contempt of court offences).

I agree the man appears to have mental problems, and has nothing to do with normal naturism.

But having said that, his attempts to walk the length of the country naked have shown by the small number of complaints that not many people are actually too bothered.

[Alex Heney]

I agree with Voldermort on the mental state of Gough. 
Its Goughs refusal to dress when asked to do so that kept getting him locked up (rightly so ).
Remember the law in Scotland does not give you the right to be naked , I thnk this was why he was originally arrested .

The law in Scotland does not ban nudity, any more than the law in England and Wales does. And everywhere in teh UK, if the law does not ban something then it is legal.

They managed to convict him originally in Scotland under Breach of the peace, which they couldn't do in England (or Wales) because the law is slightly different.

In England or Wales, to convict, there must have been an actual or "imminent" breach. In Scotland, the behaviour only needs to be "likely" to cause a breach in the opinion of the arresting officer.

[duncolm]

Don't quite agree with you on the legal situation in Scotland.
Scots Law is based on Common Law much more than the English one is. The effect of this is that court decisions define what the law is as much as what's in statute. On the question of nudity in a public case, the courts have (fairly) consistently found that arrest and conviction is justified. To quote one Sheriff, 'the view of the courts is that members of the public should not have to tolerate completely naked persons in full view on public streets'.  For streets you can include beaches and any other public place. That, in practical terms, is therefore the law and it would take either a large scale change of mind by the justiciary or Parliament passing a statute to change it.
Apart from that there is an offence in Common Law called 'public indecency', which 'is a public order offence relating to activities such as nude sunbathing, urinating in public or streaking.' There's no power of arrest with it and it doesn't seem to be used, but it is still part of the law.

[MinRich]

 

[Alex Heney]

Generally Naked in public would mean a Public Order offence and probably a Sec 5 offence .

Not under the law in England and Wales it wouldn't.

Which is why they never succeeded in convicting him of anything in England or Wales, and had to stop him by means of an ASBO.

The law is slightly different in Scotland, making it much easier to convict of Breach of the Peace(which is what they first got him under, followed by repeated contempt of court offences).

I agree the man appears to have mental problems, and has nothing to do with normal naturism.

But having said that, his attempts to walk the length of the country naked have shown by the small number of complaints that not many people are actually too bothered.

Well be assured i know what the law is and i am right as far as E and W is concerned , 30 years of experience says so .

Why should I be assured of that?

And I knew perfectly well what that law said.

See Below

The offence is created by section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986:
"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he: (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."
This offence has the following statutory defences:
(a) The defendant had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be alarmed or distressed by his action. (b) The defendant was in a dwelling and had no reason to believe that his behaviour would be seen or heard by any person outside any dwelling. (c) The conduct was reasonable.

And part a) of that defence would apply in the large majority of cases, since very few people are actually caused alarm or distress by simple nudity. Some are offended by it, but that is not the same thing.

GENERALLY BEING NAKED IN A PUBLIC PLACE SEES THE ARREST UNDER THIS ACT , ALL STREAKERS FOR EXAMPLE - USED SUCCESSFULLY MANY TIMES SINCE 1986

Oddly, I can't find any reference to people who have been convicted under that without pleading guilty.

Breach of the Peace is generally only used when those that are using it don't know the law but can be used in a private place

It is what Gough was convicted under in Scotland. While he has been arrested a few times in England, he has never actually been convicted.

He has been charged under Section 5 a few times, but usually the charges have been dropped before it reached court. Probably when they realised he would have a defence under a) above.

[MinRich]

 

[isleswing]

It's a shame this has got bogged down with barrackroom lawyers arguing over their own interpretations of the law. I wonder whether Gough is mentally ill, or just a loony (two different things entirely, to be treated in differing ways).
I had been hoping for a discussion on how the Gough case, and public nudity in general, would be treated in Fuerte. I've been thinking particularly of the recent threads about walking naked in Caleta and others.
Also, how people feel about seeing such things away from the beaches.

[duncolm]

I believe Gough was given a thorough mental examination several times during his extended stay in Scottish prisons. (I think the Governors were desperate to find an excuse not to keep him in their general population.) He was consistently found not to be suffering from mental illness. So either he has a personality disorder or he's eccentric, and who can say where the dividing line between these two is.

While he was is Scotland we were told about how much more tolerant the English legal authorities would be of him. However I hear he's banged up in England now.

In the end of the day I'm pretty sure he's harmless and I wouldn't be concerned at all if I encountered him.  Would he be tolerated on Fuerteventura? For a while perhaps, but as he always seems determined not to stay out of peoples way he would draw complaints and the authorities would eventually feel compelled to act.

[MinRich]

For the UK - Put yourself in a womans position , out walking on your own and confronted by a naked man . What would be your concern ? and what would you think his intentions were ?  would you be alarmed or distressed ? of course you would . Allso the age of the person confronted would be a aggravating factor too .

In Fuerteventura - suppose it depends on your location , the time of day , the age of the Female , but generally there is alot of Nudity around so perhaps not so much of an issue .

[jg]

For the UK - Put yourself in a womans position , out walking on your own and confronted by a naked man . What would be your concern ? and what would you think his intentions were ?  would you be alarmed or distressed ? of course you would . Allso the age of the person confronted would be a aggravating factor too .

In Fuerteventura - suppose it depends on your location , the time of day , the age of the Female , but generally there is alot of Nudity around so perhaps not so much of an issue .

Such evidence as actually exists indicates that a woman in such a position would usually be neither alarmaed or distressed.

The latest authoritative data to which I have access, a NOP survey in 2001, indicates that less than 10% of people would have any adverse reaction of whom only oen percent would consider calling the police.
In contrast almost out of ten considered naturists to be sensible or harmless.
As far as I can tell the proportions were exactly the same for men and women.

[lovethebeach]

Last summer I was sunbathing on a quiet beauty spot on the river derwent I was alone on a dead end path
In the distance I saw two females so I decided to call it a day I put my shorts on and walked towards them to go home
as I aproached them the older lady said she hoped I wasnt leaving because of them, she said they had spotted me before I had  spotted them and had no problem with me being naked so I walked back with them ,a mother and daughter, and returned to my spot on the river bank while they walked  little further to let their dogs swim, I would see them or the mother exercising the dogs right through the summer when they would often stop for a chat.

[MinRich]

For the UK - Put yourself in a womans position , out walking on your own and confronted by a naked man . What would be your concern ? and what would you think his intentions were ?  would you be alarmed or distressed ? of course you would . Allso the age of the person confronted would be a aggravating factor too .

In Fuerteventura - suppose it depends on your location , the time of day , the age of the Female , but generally there is alot of Nudity around so perhaps not so much of an issue .

Such evidence as actually exists indicates that a woman in such a position would usually be neither alarmaed or distressed.

The latest authoritative data to which I have access, a NOP survey in 2001, indicates that less than 10% of people would have any adverse reaction of whom only oen percent would consider calling the police.
In contrast almost out of ten considered naturists to be sensible or harmless.
As far as I can tell the proportions were exactly the same for men and women.

Well take a stroll along your local high street in the UK in the nude and see what happens

[jg]

For the UK - Put yourself in a womans position , out walking on your own and confronted by a naked man . What would be your concern ? and what would you think his intentions were ?  would you be alarmed or distressed ? of course you would . Allso the age of the person confronted would be a aggravating factor too .

In Fuerteventura - suppose it depends on your location , the time of day , the age of the Female , but generally there is alot of Nudity around so perhaps not so much of an issue .

Such evidence as actually exists indicates that a woman in such a position would usually be neither alarmaed or distressed.

The latest authoritative data to which I have access, a NOP survey in 2001, indicates that less than 10% of people would have any adverse reaction of whom only oen percent would consider calling the police.
In contrast almost out of ten considered naturists to be sensible or harmless.
As far as I can tell the proportions were exactly the same for men and women.

Well take a stroll along your local high street in the UK in the nude and see what happens

In the High Street you can guarantee to meet one of the offended minority, elsewhere it is a different kettle of fish.

[isleswing]

Locally - UK, a few months back, on farmer's market day in our town centre, a woman visitor phoned the police because she could see a man naked through the window of his upstairs hotel  room.
Of course, they duly oblige, but, by the time they get round to attending, he's downstairs, eating his breakfast. Clothed.
Everyone had a good laugh at the woman's expense when she was told not to go looking in bedroom windows if she didn't want to be offended.

It does show the narrow-minded attitudes which we have to live with.

[falkirkdan]

Hope the guy said roughly spherical containers to her.
So this is other expression for boll*cks?