All Inclusive Booze

[fatherted]

I've just done a few price comparisons staying for 7 nights in June (exc flights);-
               s/c      b/b       a/i
Broncemar       77       110      189
San jorge      109       138      283
Costa Caleta                      182
Tahona          70        90      170
Caleta Gdns     65        93      167
Barcelo                  230      362

It's a no brainer when you can upgrade from s/c to a/i for in some cases just over £100 for 21 meals + daytime snacks and drinks.

[woe10]

Quote from kevin2003

"How many bars and restaurants employ staff "on their books"? Not many I fear."

I think you´re making assumptions here. Do you have anything to back up your claims. It´s not like the old days. Inspectors are going round all the time checking up on Bars & Restaurants.
I know people that have bars and have a real struggle at the end of the month to pay:

Social Security Payments.
Taxes To the Government.
Taxes to Ayuntimiento.
Payments for Music License to SGAE (Spanish PRS).

You can´t get away with any of the above nowadays.

[gish]

i am goina A/I this year as it was cheaper than H/B when booking it.
myself, missus & two kids(8&5) going to caleta (broncemar beach) for a week in june thomas cook were wanting £1600H/B or £1450A/I.
thats a no brainer[]

[mitjh]

We went to visit friends in a complex and asked for a glass of wine which not only smelt awful, looked yellow and tasted like the old retsina years ago. I asked what is this and the barman said all inclusive have this wine and lifted a massive plastic container. I told him I was not all inclusive and we were visiting friends and if this is what all inclusive drank I never want to go there. He immediately gave me a decent glass out of a proper bottle from the fridge. Cheek eh? [^]

[austin7]

quote:Originally posted by kevin2003

Originally posted by austin7

The authorities don't seem to want the towns to survive - they want all tourists in All Inclusive hotels period.. This is no way to operate tourist resorts.

Okay...let's leave aside for a moment the fact that this is a sovereign Spanish island and that their policy for the development of tourism on these islands is solely a matter for them...

....AI is the perfect model for the Authorities here.It creates employment both directly and,through suppliers,indirectly.It generates tax streams from capital,labour,social insurance and value added taxes.But perhaps most importantly...these businesses tend to re-invest in themselves.They have one eye on tomorrow.A crucial element in the success in any business.

Unfortunately Kevin, your comment that AI creates employment both directly and through suppliers, and generates tax streams etc, is a bit naive and incorrect.

The hotels are being forced by the tour operators to accommodate their AI operations. The tour operator is the only organisation that makes money from this enterprise (they are in the UK, Germany,France, Italy etc) the hotels do not make money, they are forced to provide all food and drink for a daily budget of between 8.00 - 13.00€ per head per day.

The amount of wastage they are encountering is staggering, the only way the hotels can survive is by using the cheapest ingredients they can, and by reducing their staff levels to the minimum.

An illustration of this is that lot of them use paper cups for drinks to save them having to employ people to collect the glasses and wash them.

The staff in these places are not happy, as with no money changing hands, there are few if any tips. So no extra cash going into the community.

The hotel suppliers are no better off, as they are having their margins squeezed by the hotels, and in a lot of cases have lost business as some of the chain hotels are now buying their supplies in bulk and having them shipped here from elsewhere, so more revenue lost to the local community.

Further as the hotels and suppliers are not making anything like the same margins as before, they are actually paying less taxes so the government and local authorities are losing out too.

The other businesses in the community are suffering as they are getting fewer and fewer clients, so making less money - paying less taxes and having to lay off staff, this is too much for some businesses and they are forced to close, so more unemployment, and loss of tax revenues.

This affects everybody.

Last year research was carried out in Turkey on the affects of AI on the local communities, the conclusions showed that they were seriously damaging the local communities, and that only 10% of the money filtered its way into the local community.

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by austin7


Unfortunately Kevin, your comment that AI creates employment both directly and through suppliers, and generates tax streams etc, is a bit naive and incorrect.

The hotels are being forced by the tour operators to accommodate their AI operations. The tour operator is the only organisation that makes money from this enterprise (they are in the UK, Germany,France, Italy etc) the hotels do not make money, they are forced to provide all food and drink for a daily budget of between 8.00 - 13.00€ per head per day.

The amount of wastage they are encountering is staggering, the only way the hotels can survive is by using the cheapest ingredients they can, and by reducing their staff levels to the minimum.

An illustration of this is that lot of them use paper cups for drinks to save them having to employ people to collect the glasses and wash them.

The staff in these places are not happy, as with no money changing hands, there are few if any tips. So no extra cash going into the community.

The hotel suppliers are no better off, as they are having their margins squeezed by the hotels, and in a lot of cases have lost business as some of the chain hotels are now buying their supplies in bulk and having them shipped here from elsewhere, so more revenue lost to the local community.

Further as the hotels and suppliers are not making anything like the same margins as before, they are actually paying less taxes so the government and local authorities are losing out too.

The other businesses in the community are suffering as they are getting fewer and fewer clients, so making less money - paying less taxes and having to lay off staff, this is too much for some businesses and they are forced to close, so more unemployment, and loss of tax revenues.

This affects everybody.

Last year research was carried out in Turkey on the affects of AI on the local communities, the conclusions showed that they were seriously damaging the local communities, and that only 10% of the money filtered its way into the local community.

I will give you some credit Austin.Your post has all the hallmarks of your opening post.Full of scare....but a little light on facts....and links.

To address Woe's earlier points:

The taxes and charges you detail are mandatory for every business.You would not be able to open the doors on your premises without full compliance.....but that was not what I was referring to.

I was referring to payroll.I was referring to the sea of the casually employed from whom the state derives no benefit and sadly,themselves,receive no benefit or entitlement.

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by mitjh

We went to visit friends in a complex and asked for a glass of wine which not only smelt awful, looked yellow and tasted like the old retsina years ago. I asked what is this and the barman said all inclusive have this wine and lifted a massive plastic container. I told him I was not all inclusive and we were visiting friends and if this is what all inclusive drank I never want to go there. He immediately gave me a decent glass out of a proper bottle from the fridge. Cheek eh? [^]

What was the name of this AI and do please give us the link to their TripAdvisor page.

I'm intrigued.

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by gish

thats a no brainer[]

Got it in one.[] Enjoy your hols.[]

[woe10]

The taxes and charges you detail are mandatory for every business.You would not be able to open the doors on your premises without full compliance.....but that was not what I was referring to.

I was referring to payroll.I was referring to the sea of the casually employed from whom the state derives no benefit and sadly,themselves,receive no benefit or entitlement.


This is exactly what the big Hotels are doing. Especially the bigger chains such as Barcelo. Most of their workers are on Temporary contracts and are hired and fired a will. Working for minimum wages, a lot of them are from Eastern Europe. Most of the Entertainers are from Bulgaria, Romania etc. I know a girl who works at Elba Sara as an animator and is on "forced unpayed leave" at the moment as her temp contract has run out, and there has to be a period before they can take her on again. All loop-holes to get away with paying the Government taxaes. That´s why Spain´s f@cked.

Google Teddy Bautista. He´s the Director of SGAE, (the Spanish EQ of the PRS in UK) He siphoned off millions of euros into his own bank account, that was paid from the likes of small bars, in music licence money, all the way up to Digital Music downloads, and he´s getting away with it because his friend is the Minister of Culture.[!][!]

Just read that he´s been "Unfaily Dismissed" from his post and has been offered 23,000 euros/month pension. That´s "Broke Spain" for you.

I know it´s nothing to do with AI, but it´s all linked in with the overall corruption going on here. EG. Plastic flagons of wine for All Inclusive clients..

[kevin2003]

Woe,temporary contacts and minimum wages are a feature of every developed economy.For better or for worse.

As for corruption? I agree.You couldn't make it up.[]

[kevin2003]

quote:Originally posted by roar of the rovers

i take it you have never been to La scapella....

No......but I've been to Mario's and it's one of my favourite places on earth.[]

[austin7]

Hmmmm!! - I started this post just to put a bit of infrmation into the public domain, and it has turned into a debate on the pros & cons of AI.  Interesting!!!

I have been asked to provide links to verify my info.

My info on the 2% beers etc came direct from a rep of one of the best known beers in the Canaries, he was quite open about the info, but stressed that if it got out "it did not come from him".

As for other info, my business takes me into most of the hotels, bars, restaurants etc in Corralejo, and I talk to the owners/directors and employees of these businesses on a daily basis.

Most of my conversations have to be taken in confidence and therefore are unatributal, I am sorry if this does not satisfy the unbelievers, but perhaps if they went to some of the hotels/bars/restaurants/businesses and spoke to the same people I do they would find that I am not exaggerating the situation, if anything the situation is worse.

I have seen a link to the report on AI from Turkey somewhere within this forum, unfortunately I can't remember where I saw it, possibly someone else can remeber and furnish the link.

[trench]

Life is tough all over europe, another round of job losses with clinton cards going belly up, if it's AI or no holiday then that is what many will choose.
We travel regularly to Fuerte,but rarely if ever go into BritIrish bars or restaurants.If we eat or drink out it will be in local bars and restaurants, having said that we buy most our fooddrink at the local supermarket - i know many other frequent travellers who adopt a similar outlook. I do not want to travel to Fuerte to sit in a brit bar drinking overpriced brit beer surrounded by the smell of fried food, I can go to the uk to do that!

[woe10]

"I do not want to travel to Fuerte to sit in a brit bar drinking overpriced brit beer surrounded by the smell of fried food, I can go to the uk to do that!"


Nice one !!!  The thing is, a lot of people do though. You know what they say, "Can´t stand that Foreign rubbish".

[trench]

"... a lot of people do ..." not from what Austin 7 seems to be saying, rather thay prefer to sit in the AI hoteln!

[redynet]

At Easter we were told that AI will be finished by Jan 2013. We will believe it when we see it. If true, then life will resume as normal for all bars and restaurants on the Island. Hopefully!!

[djk99]

quote:Originally posted by redynet

At Easter we were told that AI will be finished by Jan 2013. We will believe it when we see it. If true, then life will resume as normal for all bars and restaurants on the Island. Hopefully!!

Hi Red, was that with a particular Travel Agent/Hotel??

[austin7]

Hi Trench - I appreciate what yo are saying, but it is not just the Brit/Irish bars that are suffering, everybody is.

last month the local Business Association & Chamber of Commerce (all Spanish) demanded a meeting with government and local authority representatives to ask what their intentions were regarding All Inclusives, and what they were going to do to help the local business community.  From what I have heard - the responses were totally unsatisfactory, and typical political spin and gobbeldegook, however the new minister for tourism seems to be a bit more switched on, as he has stated that they tourist authorities should do more to help and encourage the independant travellers to the island....  but then they go and try to close down every privately owned holidasy let.....

[Cameron]

you have to ask yourself is it corruption and are little brown envelopes swaying the decisions made by those that matter. There is no other earthly reason why they would compromise the livelyhoods of the smaller businesses in their major tourist resorts by over promoting A/I and destroying the self catering  private rental market at a single stroke.None of it makes sense but then again i always think the worst of any local government body or national politician.

Could be i'm wrong and they're just honest and stupid.

[woe10]

Lets get one thing clear here. There´s All Inclusive, and there´s All Inclusive as mis-sold to Holiday Makers in Caleta De Fuste.

CALETA DE FUSTE

Free Beer and Gut-Rot Wine served in Plastic Cups until 11.00pm
Free Food in one Buffet Type Restaurant. Same every night.

TYPICAL CARIBBEAN: DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, MEXICO, CUBA, ETC..


    Breakfast:

    Buffet varied with whole-grain products, cooking live, fruits, juices and cava
    Breakfast continental, snack

    Lunch:

    Buffet with hot and cold dishes and show cooking

    Dinner (at the restaurant "Don Manuel"):

    Buffets and dishes prepared "for the moment"
    Special evenings: theme Buffet, 3 times per week

    Optional dinner (previous booking):

    Brazilian restaurant "La Bodega" (main dish served at table, buffet of starters and desserts)
    Italian restaurant "Luigi" (à la carte, buffet of starters)

    À la carte:

    Japanese restaurant "Yokohama"
    -Grill / Steakhouse
    "Krystal" fusion restaurant

    Formal dress is required for dinner (main restaurant: t-shirt with sleeves for gentlemen; theme restaurants: long pants and shirt with sleeves for gentlemen)

    Snacks 24 hours

    For lunch and snacks: free choice among the offers of all th     hotels of the Riu Resort (basil.) Riu Palace Bavaro)

    Drinks:

    National and international drinks 24 hours
    Drinks by the pool
    Consumption of drinks in all bars in the Riu Resort (basil.)
    Riu Palace Bavaro and "Pacha" disco)
    The replacement of the minibar and liquor in room dispenser

    Room service 24 hours

    The safe in the rooms

    Sports and activities:

    Table tennis, gymnastics
    4 tennis courts in the Riu Resort
    Gym, sauna, jacuzzi
    Windsurfing, sailing, kayaking, snorkel equipment
    1 test dive in the pool

    Entertainment program:

    Daytime Entertainment for children from 4 to 12 years (every day)
    Daytime Entertainment for adults (every day)
    Live music, program night Riu or shows (every day)
    "Pacha" disco (open nightly)

    The entrance to the casino of the Riu Palace Macao

    The entrance to the disco "Pacha" (Basil) on special nights

    The clients of the hotel must be identified with our "All inclusive" wristband

[austin7]

Woe10 has it right, The original "All Inclusives" were the like of Club Medeteranean, with excellent food, drink and facilities, but these were expensive.  The next stage were places like the Dominican Republic, Egypt etc where it was often considered too dangerous to venture out of your complex.

This is not the case here, Corralejo, Caleta etc are perfectly safe places to go out, the tour companies sell these resorts as family friendly, yet we often hear that reps are telling people it is not safe to go out unless on a tour company organised outing, a total contradiction.

However what is happeneing here is that the tour companies are trying to do bargain basement All Inclusive, to attract the biggest numbers.  The hotels are having to compromise with quality to provide quantity on a very minimal budget and the results are inevitably poor.

Also the bargain basement prices tend to attract the wrong type of tourists.

One of the very sad results is that a lot of these tourists will never leave the complex, then return home tell people they came to Fuerte on holiday and it was Sh**

Just another bit of info - Just hjeard that Thomaas Cook numbers for may are down 50%...