Author Topic: Residencia and advice  (Read 243 times)

Offline Malcolm welsh

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Residencia and advice
« on: June 29, 2020, 15:43:38 PM »
Have a property in fuerteventura, spend about six months here each year have NIE and empadron, with Brexit approaching, should we try to get Residencia? We stay usually in four to five week blocks throughout the year, may stay here longer as we get older. Thanks

Offline Logitechtom

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 08:12:39 AM »
If you want to be here for more than 90 days in any 12 month period, you need to apply for what is mistakenly called residencia but is actually a certificate that you are a citizen of another EU state (that therefore gives you the right to reside in another EU state, hence known as residencia).

After 31st December,  the UK is no longer an EU state and therefore UK citizens can not apply for that certificate. There will be an alternative system for "Citizens of a third state" but no one knows for sure exactly what that will involve.

So.......... get your application in the the National Police Station in PDR as soon as you can. You do not need to employ anyone to do it for you (avg. cost €100), just research well and do exactly as they say.

Tom.

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 08:12:39 AM »

Offline spitfire58

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 19:58:07 PM »
That is to be our next step when over but I have heard that to retain residencia one must live there for more than 6 months in the year. If that is the case then that would really only cover full time tax fiscal residents. We intend to get ours but will only ever be there for 4 or at most 5 months over the winter. We were getting it to get around this 90 out of 180 day ruling after end on 2020 but now sounds like we may struggle to keep residencia depending on rigorous the checking of how long you are in or out is 🤔🤔

Offline Logitechtom

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2020, 20:48:49 PM »
Hi Spitfire, never heard of a minimum time you need to be here, and never seen anything about it online anywhere.

The system changed yesterday!  You will now apply for a TIE, a card for an external person. No information yet on how it all works but you will need an appointment to apply.

Will post further once they give information.

Tom.

Offline spitfire58

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2020, 20:57:30 PM »
I read on another post that your residencia could be withdrawn (or become invalid) if you did not reside on the island for more than 6 months in any one year. Hence my saying you would pretty much by default then have to be fiscally resident

Offline Lexeus

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Re: Residencia and advice
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2020, 04:21:57 AM »
I read on another post that your residencia could be withdrawn (or become invalid) if you did not reside on the island for more than 6 months in any one year. Hence my saying you would pretty much by default then have to be fiscally resident

These things are always complicated, and being 100% sure is important, but I think there are two points here that get intertwined and mixed up.

First the little green card (or Registration certificate) is, as Logitechtom said, not actually a residence permit. As EU citizens you are legally allowed to reside in any EU country, but each EU member state has the right to require that you register with the government if you intend on staying longer than 90 days in a continuous period; therefore the green card is not a permit giving you rights and it is actually the Spanish government requiring you to notify the Police of your legally allowed residence in the country but it does also require the police to do a few checks which in turn does provide you with evidence that your residence is government recognised. If you break the terms of your legal residence in Spain then that invalidates any rights you may have, for example I didn't have a pension or job offer in Spain and so I am required to maintain a fully comprehensive health insurance, if I cancel the policy (€55/month) I have broken the requirements for residence in Spain. (This really pisses me off because the UK give free NHS care to all and therefore that has to include EU immigrants, therefore no such requirements can be asked for in the UK or it would be discrimination... but the Spanish government have so many exceptions to the rules that most Spaniards are covered free anyway)

Second, so only once you have registered and got your green card is it that the Spanish government then recognises that you legally exist in Spain, and then you can start counting the days to the 6 months for tax residency. I believe it to be the case that once you are tax resident the Spanish government cannot remove your legal right to live in Spain (whether the UK are non-EU or not). So apart from all EU citizens having the right to spend up to 90 days in other EU member-states, it is only at this point that you have gained an actual indefinite right-of-residence in Spain. At this point you could still lose your residence if you broke some serious laws or..... if you spend one year tax resident outside of Spain. After 3 years you can spend more than 6months outside of Spain but only if you maintain sufficiently strong links with Spain (including a house & regular visits) that basically mean the double-taxation treaty will cause you to still end up being taxed in Spain due to the points system. After 5 years of tax residency you can apply for permanent residence which then removes the additional requirements for residency (like my health insurance).

In short I don't think you can retain a legal EU-style right to reside in Spain without becoming tax resident here before the end of 2020, that is why I declared tax residency in 2019 while the UK was still full EU membered-up! :D

Looking to the future I fully expect the Spanish government will form a treaty of some kind for all the Brits who have 2nd homes in Spain, the real question is what do you want residency for exactly? It's more of a burden than anything else!  :P
With regards to the TIE, they say all the Brits have to convert their NIE to a TIE but frankly I will not give up my NIE unless they prise it from my hands as it is the only really reliable legal document that registers me from 2018 onwards, and I don't want to have to keep counting past 2023 because they put a later date on the TIE. They already screwed up when they issued my driving license and said I passed my test 6 months earlier than my British license actually said...


The following webpage gives alot of details on permanent residence requirements (in Spanish) but the question is exactly how will British ex-EU citizens be treated, no one really knows? will we still be treated as EU citizens if we were here before 2020???
http://www.interior.gob.es/web/servicios-al-ciudadano/extranjeria/ciudadanos-de-la-union-europea/residencia-de-caracter-permanente
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 04:49:20 AM by Lexeus »