Manchester Arena

[spitfire58]

I read somewhere there are at least 23,000 knocking around Britain with the potential to commit a terrorist attack. How can you keep tabs on that lot?. It's an impossible task, but it would be made a whole lot easier with some of the 13 billion quid casually thrown at foreign aid diverted to funding extra security measures. That they continue to complain of lack of finance and will not contemplate the idea is a kick in the teeth to the British taxpayer and shows the Governments priority lies with the care of those abroad rather than those being murdered within the UK. I wouldn't vote for any of them on Thursday other than the fact if i don't i could be partly responsible for Corbyn sitting in Downing St.

Divert the money to the border security services so once they are out they do not get back in. Round up the 23,000. If they have dual nationality, deport them. If not internment, or leave !! End of !!!

[Tamkid]

Unfortunately a high percentage seem to be home grown, who would take them? tagging, internment, mental institution for the duration of their miserable sick lives, preferably build the institution off shore, to keep them busy make them work on a pig farm, then bury them at sea.

[Ivemovedon]

Same old bull... trotted out this morning. ' We won't let it change our lives, business as usual'. Yeah right.!  Apart from another 7 dead victims, Borough market still closed and all businesses including pubs and restaurants shut down. Limited access for nearby residents with some roads still closed after 4 days. Concrete barriers on London's Bridges now standard to stop vehicles deliberately veering off into pedestrians further restricting the flow of traffic. Police armed to the teeth in most airports, stations and other public areas.  Election debates closed down for certain days after atrocities affecting the course of democracy. Soldiers advised not to wear uniform in public areas in case of attack after the Lee Rigsby murder. It goes on...

No it's not changing our lives at all is it? Unless you live on the rock of course.

[Tamkid]

This is supposed to be happening today, it will be interesting to see if any of the news channels think it important enough to pick up on it.

UK imams will come together tomorrow  to condemn the recent atrocities in Manchester and London and make clear that there is no religious justification in the taking of innocent lives.
Imams, at an event near London Bridge, will pay tribute to those killed in the terror attacks and speak out strongly against those who commit them. A statement condemning extremism and terrorist violence, endorsed by 500 British Imams from all over the UK, will be read out publicly.

[janandpaul]

the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when  or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.

[spitfire58]

This is supposed to be happening today, it will be interesting to see if any of the news channels think it important enough to pick up on it.

UK imams will come together tomorrow  to condemn the recent atrocities in Manchester and London and make clear that there is no religious justification in the taking of innocent lives.
Imams, at an event near London Bridge, will pay tribute to those killed in the terror attacks and speak out strongly against those who commit them. A statement condemning extremism and terrorist violence, endorsed by 500 British Imams from all over the UK, will be read out publicly.

Problem is that even if this happens it still doesn't mean that things will change. There are too many segregated communities in our country. Some would pass on info about an undesirable, a lot will not because they see it as them against us, not all part of UK population. I would love to see Muslims standing up & saying, I will not attend a mosque, I will not wear a beard, I will not wear a burka, etc until this stops. Show themselves to be with the country they live in & against anyone that uses their religion to set them aside

[erik_tonny]

I was told that Britain is so politically correct, that it is not done to order black coffee.
You are expected to ask for coffee without milk.

[Tamkid]

I think the point I was trying to make is if there is not one iota of news broadcast from the other side i.e. the Muslim community, then what hope is there, if you are saying they should not have a voice at all condemning the sick bstards, and that they should be segregated and treat as lepers. fair enough, if all you ever want to hear is about Muslim atrocities, fair enough.

The majority of my male relatives including myself have served in the armed forces, I love England with a passion. I travel a great deal around Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle and a few more cities on occasions, its all changed, it is what it is whether I like it or not, somehow we have to get real and accommodate, I have no idea how but I am certain more educated people than me could come up with a long term agenda for integration but it has to come from all sides not just ours i.e. UK white Christians.

[Ivemovedon]

Integration is fine for the mainstream. But these individuals do not want to integrate in any shape or form. They are just using the UK and it's easy benefits system as a free pass to wage Jihad against the infidel. Thats you and me. And our lax immigration system has made sure they are well and truly free to do it. They may have been radicalized but it was most likely done within the UK and by muslim clerics residing in the UK, also probably living on benefits along with wives and children. The whole system stinks and is rotten to the core. Anything they try to do now is really far far too late, the damage has been done.

[MalT]

"" the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when  or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.""


I'm sure your granddad and mine didn't fight facists, for us to turn into racists ourselves!!

[spitfire58]

"" the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when  or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.""


I'm sure your granddad and mine didn't fight facists, for us to turn into racists ourselves!!

They fought so that we could be free to live our lives in peace & prosperity & to stop evil people like Hitler. I am sure a lot of them would be turning in their graves if they could see how spineless & pc we have become.
They fought for the right for Britain to be Britain, not a Sharia state !!

[MalT]

They fought for freedom, for he right of all races and cultures to live their lives in peace without persecution, in my opinion every child should be made to visit Austwich, to see where mans inhumanity to man leads. I've said before on this forum, these terrorists are evil, but knee jerk reactions straight out of the daily mail editorials are not the answer

[Ivemovedon]

How do you know what my dad and grandad fought for. I tell you one thing it wasn't for spineless appeasers or to protect those who wished ill will on our family. I doubt my grandad or yours thought of anything but their own country in the trenches. Its just a load of hypothetical nonsense claiming otherwise.

I've visited Aushwitz myself and your statement like most of your others linking present terrorist atrocities and Nazi genocide have no connection whatsover. Another silly post.

[Tamkid]

I think it just happened again in a nursery for god sake, if I am honest sparky you speak a lot of sense, I cant really get my mind around it, its so beyond me, I have no idea what can be done except exterminate the sick fcks.

[Ivemovedon]

tamkid I'm no expert on the subject for sure but one thing i do know is that these people have a type of mindset that interprets any form of benevolence as a sign of weakness. There is no line in the sand where they will respond to appeasement. They will take everything you've got and bite your hand again and again. Some folk just cannot grasp this fact of life.

[MalT]

I lived with my grandfather and know exactly what he fought for and have always followed his example, I cite the facists because I'm sure germans in the Weimar Republic never thought that they would descend into such barbarism, The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing, you people need to get some perspective, millions of muslims and Hindus and no doubt other creeds died fighting for our and their freedom and what's your answer, intern or deport them, these 'muslims' have lived here for generations, they pay their taxes and enrich it society

[spitfire58]

I lived with my grandfather and know exactly what he fought for and have always followed his example, I cite the facists because I'm sure germans in the Weimar Republic never thought that they would descend into such barbarism, The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing, you people need to get some perspective, millions of muslims and Hindus and no doubt other creeds died fighting for our and their freedom and what's your answer, intern or deport them, these 'muslims' have lived here for generations, they pay their taxes and enrich it society

You have said it yourself MalT.
"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing".
No one (I believe) has said that "all" muslims should be interred BUT there is a section of society that in the current situation that are an evil twisted cancer on the rest of us (and I include ALL decent people in this, black, white, Christian, Muslim & whatever else you want to include)
If as you say " The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" then we cannot sit idly by & let them carry out evil acts on the decent parts of society on this planet. They need to be weeded out & removed by the most efficient means possible.

[Ivemovedon]

Like i said some people are just unable to grasp it...

[Tamkid]

I'm not sure your reading the same thread MalT or what your point is, so far you haven't gave any insight into what you think should happen to help resolve the situation, nobody on this forum has said anything close to what you are suggesting. I do business with Muslims, but I despise their religion and the consequences of extremism following that religion, how would you go about negotiating with these people or what would you do with them?

[Ivemovedon]

The usual Liberal mindset. Wonderful Utopian views on the world with absolutely no practical idea how to solve it's problems. If you want the Nazi connection again, they tried to appease Hitler didn't they?, and we all know what ended up happening because of it.

Hopefully today Britain will reject that limp wristed, terrorist apologist Liberal attitude that has continued to fail us.

[MalT]

No ones apologising for the terrorists ,police did exactly the right thing, no problem with shoot to kill in those circumstances and I do appreciate there are no easy answers, just vilifying a race or religion because of the actions of a misguided and deluded few seems extreme.

[Ivemovedon]

As said before nobody on here has vilified a specific race, only those within it that abuse their religious beliefs to cause harm to innocents. You still have'nt told us your alternative solution that will solve the problem. In which case it means you are content for it to continue as it is.

[janandpaul]

this is a verse from the Koran, ive read it, and the Mormon book, and our bible, compare,

War is not an objective of Islam nor is it the normal course of Muslims; it is only the last resort and is used under the most extraordinary circumstances, when all other attempts at just and peaceful solutions to the dispute fail. In Islam, every being is entitled to enjoy a free and peaceful life, regardless of religious, geographical or racial considerations. If non-Muslims are living peacefully or even indifferently with the Muslims, there can be no grounds or justification to declare war on them or to begin hostilities, embark on any act of aggression, or violate their rights.

• Jihad

In Islam Jihad does not mean "Holy war". And is not a declaration of war against other religions and certainly not against Christians and Jews, as some people want it to be perceived. Jihad literally means "striving, struggling or exerting more effort than usual for the betterment of one's self and the community at large." It has an internal, societal and combative dimension.

- The internal dimension of Jihad encompasses the struggle against the evil inclinations of the self; it involves every Muslim's earnest, moral efforts to resist all internal or external inclination towards sin of all kinds. This includes the struggle to overcome problems, difficulties, tasks, and temptations.

- The social dimension includes struggling against social injustice and creating a communal identity based on charity, respect and equality. Also it takes the form of calling people with the community to enjoin good and forbid evil.

- Finally, the combative aspect of jihad is in the form of a just war to be used against aggression or to fight forces of tyranny and evil oppression, and, even then, to observe the strict limits of conduct prescribed by Islam that preserves the life of innocents and the sanctity of the environment.

- Islam rejects all forms of terrorism, extremism, fanatism and fundamentalism. The religion of Islam guarantees the sanctity of life (the life of a non-Muslim is considered as sacred as that of a Muslim), honor, property, and freedom to embrace and practice any religion they freely choose, and all other conducts as long as those conducts do not hurt others. To terrorize people or spread fear in any society or hurt others; all are considered major sins in Islam; Allah prescribed severe punishments for those who are involved in such actions. answer, so they cannot be muslim.

[Ivemovedon]

That sounds wonderful. If only all muslims respected those ideals it would be even more wonderful.

I can't see where all this is going. What have moderate muslims got to do with the one's carrying out the carnage. The only thing said on here is that the moderates should be more vocal in their outrage at these atrocities and condemn them as unislamic which up until now they have failed to do on a scale which shows they really mean it. What has all this got to do with beefing up laws to nail the murders among them?

If anyone has a better solution to stop the murder than quoting the Koran and defending anything that impinges on the human rights of hardened killers i'd love to hear it. Truly i would.

[janandpaul]

  hi, that's there rule book so I always wonder that there belief, or that of any other is nothing to do with there-struggle-,they are just terrorrists, the united nations and all decent countries should agree that anyone commit any trouble, there rites are removed, even human, and a shoot on sight policy approved by all.its all about running the west into submission, stone age attitude, make it an offence not to turn in anyone for wrongfull acts, 

[Ivemovedon]

Turn in or prosecute an Immam for not selling out another Muslim and the shrieks of Islamaphobia from the PC brigade would be deafening. It won't work purely because the Liberal elite won't let it. Is that not persecution?...in the eyes of MaIT it probably is.

[MalT]

If you. Check you'll see that the Manchester and one of London terrorists were reported to authorities by fellow muslims, ( the one even appeared bragging on to)but somewhere along the line the system failed and no doubt people are looking at that now. The Muslim community are as horrified and upset as everyone else

[Ivemovedon]

Yes they probably are, but again what has that to do with the terrorists and the methods we have to use to stop them.

Still waiting for your liberal solution to this.

[Ivemovedon]

As i suspected,...zilch. Can't say I'm surprised.

[MalT]

Well, I know that global warming is bad, but don't know how to solve it,  suspect it will be a long complicated process involving many nations, but I do know that continuing to pour sulphur into the atmosphere and pollute the oceans does not help.