Spanish Hospitals Rejecting European Health Insurance Cards

[woe10]

Fury as Spanish 'trick' British holidaymakers into paying for emergency healthcare

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333428/Spanish-government-facing-EU-punishment-countrys-hospitals-refused-accept-European-healthcare-cards-used-millions-UK-tourists.html

[Paddster]

Disgraceful 

[woe10]

Holidaymakers should take out Travel Insurance to be on the safe side. I always do when I go away.

[waggy]

If we weren't in the EU we wouldn't be entitled to it. Anyway, The EU are on the case and the Spaniards have backed down.
Though I really can't understand people who go on holiday without proper private cover, including repatriation costs and then whinge about not being able to pay for what needs paying for if something happens. The idiots expect someone else to bail them out if the worst happens.
If it's my health at stake, it's belt and braces; which in my case means over 65s cover for bi-polar disorder, angina and occasional vertigo. My wife and I get full cover from Saga for c. £80 so the cost is minimal, especially since everything else is covered too.

[cllrcollins]

Contact the local Spanish Embassy in your own country to get their opinion and response. Email address for the Spanish Embassy in Dublin is  emb.dublin@maec.es

[Paddster]

I ALWAYS travel with Insurance - wouldn't dream of going without it

[bridlife]

Whilst I fully agree that people must take out travel insurance. The crux of this issue is that Spanish hospitals failed to honour the EHIC, in order to cash in,using travel insurance as a vehicle to do this, when these accidents/injuries were fully covered by the EHIC.

[Blueboy7]

Anybody explain why it is anybody can come to the UK and get free medical care without travel insurance??? or is that just a Myth the Daily Mail is spreading about?

[Paddster]

Because the UK is a joke.........................

[woe10]

The EU is also a joke. Now they're insisting that the UK give any Tom, Dick & Harry from an EU country, full benefits.  just like the Brits who have paid their way for the last 40 years.

You can't come here and  claim benefits the next day, so what's so different about Spain

[Paddster]

It's a great point woe but the UK will never change - gutless and not ideal scared of the EU Laws etc etc,,,,,Never mind us mugs working our ass off and getting nothing out of it 
Treated like 2nd class citizens in our own backyard....

[beachlife]

The EU is also a joke. Now they're insisting that the UK give any Tom, Dick & Harry from an EU country, full benefits.  just like the Brits who have paid their way for the last 40 years.

You can't come here and  claim benefits the next day, so what's so different about Spain

The problem is that most of Europe has a contribution system where if you haven`t contributed into the system you don`t get anything out. The UK has a resident based system where if you are considered a resident of the country you get the benefits that UK has setup. Personally I think if UK went to a contributory system it would be much better as you would get what you have put in if you needed it.

[woe10]

That explains why they're all flocking to the UK. They don't like their system of having to PAY your way in life.

I know some here that don't pay their way, and when they have medical bills to pay, they have a problem

[Spike On Q]

There are said to be 100 cases where medical aid by Spanish Hospitals was refused where the claimant claimed they had a valid EHIC card, this out of 12, 000,000 claims. Lets see what the outcome of the investigation is. So many holiday makers don't know they MUST go to a Canary Island Health Service clinic not the private ones in resorts like Caleta and Costa Calma where treatment will be refused until payment is secured. I even know of holiday company reps taking an unconscious, overdosed client to a local private clinic instead of called 112 and getting immediate skilled help from a highly qualified Paramedic and immediate access to all medical services straight away

The Captain will correct me but Corralejo, Puerto, Antigua, Tunieje, Pajara, Morro Jable all have small health centers. Gran Tajarajal has a large health center and emergency room. Of course the main hospital in Puerto has all facilities including A&E

If in doubt and you are injured or ill call 112. They speak fluent English, German and of course Spanish

Also remember the modern hospitals here have NO MRSA or similar to worry about if you do have to be hospitialised - and your family will love you for giving them a excuse to take a cheap flight on Ryanair to see you, probably saving fortunes on car parking charges at UK hospitals

Finally if the worse comes to the worse now we're got some lovely crematorium here you can easily and cheaply get home in a carrier bag

It's probably another Daily Mail EU scare story - remember bent bananas, dodgey sausages, black pudding, rabies, etc. etc. all which came to naught

[duncolm]

Spike, you make that sound so attractive.....

This EHIC thing is bad, but I suspect some of the NHS Health Boards (or whatever the equivalent in NHS England are called * ) have tried stunts which are at least as bad.


* Just remembered - Trusts

[Blueboy7]

Excellent Spike, I no a few punters on Tam who swear by the Island medical services.

[kaynig]

Most people take out insurance incase the worst happen, big money is being made from the smaller holiday cases that need medical attention. Most holiday insurances you pay the first £100/£200 pounds, thats where they get you.  Corallejo.....needed some antibiotics for wife broken tooth infected the gum overnight... 100 euros, did not accept health insurance card, told to claim it back when we get home............. perhaps the spanish should pay here in the UK just to keep things balanced untill sorted.

[Spike On Q]

kaynig - where did you get charged 100 euros?  Not at the Government Health Centre by the bus station in Corralejo?

All Government Health Centres in Fuerteventura have large posters in Reception that explain your rights and requirements for Canarian, Spanish and other EU citizens. If you are from other EU states you need to produce your EHIC card and your passport, thats all and you will be treated free of charge.

The charges are divied up in a central EU office and each EU country pays their citizens health care costs for the period.

This is SO important to understand.  The Spanish do pay for any healthcare they need in the UK if the UK doctors or hospitals collect the EHIC card details and make the claim. BUT I have to use my British EHIC card when I'm in the UK as I'm registered in Fuerteventura for health care. I have never seen any notices or never heard of anyone being asked to provide EHIC cards in UK hospital so the UK loses out by not making the claims

[SheilaW]

The Corralejo medical centre (which is actually quite big, Spike, with a casualty section and specialists etc), accepted our French EHIC cards with no problem before we registered for health care here. Never charged us anything. A lot of tourists go to the Brisamar PRIVATE place, which is fine if the insurance is going to fork out, but they won't accept the cards there.

BTW, if you pay for your holiday by bank card, and who doesn't nowadays?, you automatically get some insurance cover. It's not going to pay for normal medical expenses (that's what the EHIC is for, after all), or lost luggage etc., but it does cover the really big, life-shattering events like air ambulances. That's all we ever use. Repatriation is important, as long as you're alive, especially when you live on an island. I'd hate to spend any more time than necessary in an NHS Hospital!

[growers]

What are the average health care cost, per person, per month, in Fuerte?
Here in Holland I pay around 90 euro per month, with a yearly 800 euro policy excess for anything that falls out of basic care.

[SheilaW]

What are the average health care cost, per person, per month, in Fuerte?
Here in Holland I pay around 90 euro per month, with a yearly 800 euro policy excess for anything that falls out of basic care.

Are you talking state health contributions, growers, or private health insurance - I imagine it's private, with that talk of 'policy excess'? If so, I can't help as I've never had private health cover, I don't think. I say "I don't think" because I can't remember what we actually had during our 3 years in the Netherlands - Shell picked up the tab for those things for its pampered expats.

Here in Spain, a self-employed person (autonomo - with an accent somewhere), pays a minimum of about 280€ per month. But that's not just for health cover; it includes retirement pension and one or two other things that you have to contribute to. But then there isn't much else to pay for on top - a little for prescriptions, that's all (I hope!). It isn't cheap here with that minimum being so high. In France, it's possible to pay as little as 18% of your income for the same package as a self-employed person: if you make 3000€ one month, you contribute over 500€, whereas the next month you might get in 500€ and contribute less than 100€ for the same excellent health care and pension entitlements.

I don't know about salaried employees.

[woe10]

What you could do, if you were living here and working without a contract and not paying contributions, and you fall ill and need the Emergency Helicopter ( €6000 ) to take you to Las palmas, you could get all the 'law Abiding' Residents to organise a 'Charity Do',  to chip in and pay it for you 

[growers]

Thanks for your repy Sheila, everybody in Holland has now private insurance. In the good old days before the credit crunch salaried employees and the self imployed with a average income had a sort of state health care it was called (ziekenfonds) maybe that rings a bell. Our health care cost doubled about five years ago and then doubled again when they enforced the first 800 euro own risk every year.

I quite like the sound of the french systeem that seems fare enough to me.

The spainish 280 euro minimun is quite steep I take it thats per person, so for us it would mean 560 euro a month, and that for a low key operation.

Sheila I worked at Shell(Ämsterdam) aswell in the early 1980's....small world

[Blueboy7]

Good idea Woe.  It reminds me of a local Rugby Player who after breaking his leg decided it was time to hang his boots up i.e. forced retirement. We felt sorry for him and had loads of pub charity nights, raised about £5000. He managed to recover on a THREE week holiday in the Caribbean taking in a weeks cruise, real treasure of a man, what a bunch of mugs, don't say anything.

[Spike On Q]

Sorry Sheila - as they say it's not size that matters it's how you use it!!!!

The EU Treaty allows restrictions of movement based upon a citizens ability to support themselves. Smaller, attractive countries [like Malta] have been doing it for years.

Now other states are recognising that some control is required, hence the changes to the regulations here.

As the British systems collapse - more bad news about the NHS, bent politicans, etc., etc. so the UK will become less attractive. As we already know the money is running out

Should we shrink into our shells and support the poor and needy only from our own local communities?

Gawd 'elp us!

[SheilaW]

Sorry Sheila - as they say it's not size that matters it's how you use it!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Spike, I support the idea of contributing to a health system before I expect to claim on it. In fact, having been salaried in the UK from school to departure, I didn't actually realise at the time that some were not contributing but were actually getting totally free NHS care.

In France, if an EU citizen arrives there, they are expected to contribute, or get private insurance, as here. The slight difference from the situation here is that French state health care only covers 70% of most things, such as doctors' and specialists' fees, X-rays etc, and medication, and sod all for dental, vision and hearing problems, amlthough there's a maximum you have to pay for long in-patient stays, and if you have a long and/or serious problem (cancer, diabetes...) you get 100% cover for anything actually related to its care. Sometimes, you'll be expected to pay 100% and then get back the state part, other times, you'll just get the bill for the non-covered part, but you rarely leave without paying something. I quite like that, as you can choose whether to pay the extra out of your own pocket or get top-up private insurance, as most people do. Actually, that ends up looking rather like the Dutch system.

I've not had too much back from the Spanish system yet (touching wood for good health to come), but it seems that everything here is "free", or seems to be to the average not-too-bright citizen. How can you assess the value of something, or call it a waste, if you don't have any idea of its cost? That applies to the UK system, too.

But the only real problem I have with the Spanish system is that it can be very difficult here to set up your own business. As a concrete example, someone with a minimum salary coming in (about 750€ per month) will pay less than 50€ for full social cover, whereas a self-employed person with exactly the same gross monthly income will pay 280€, and if they want to include cover for unemployment, work accidents and sickness periods, then they'll be paying nearer 350€ every month, even if they make less than that amount. That sends many businesses to the wall before they even get off the ground, and means some people have little option other than to work illegally.

Anyway, that's all getting a bit off-topic. I hope that UK holidaymakers here find that their valid EHIC cards (rather than the old E111s) are accepted by Fuerteventura medics working within the state system. Just make sure you go to a "Centro de Salud" rather than to a "Clinica".

[KWC]

There are said to be 100 cases where medical aid by Spanish Hospitals was refused where the claimant claimed they had a valid EHIC card, this out of 12, 000,000 claims. Lets see what the outcome of the investigation is. So many holiday makers don't know they MUST go to a Canary Island Health Service clinic not the private ones in resorts like Caleta and Costa Calma where treatment will be refused until payment is secured. I even know of holiday company reps taking an unconscious, overdosed client to a local private clinic instead of called 112 and getting immediate skilled help from a highly qualified Paramedic and immediate access to all medical services straight away

The Captain will correct me but Corralejo, Puerto, Antigua, Tunieje, Pajara, Morro Jable all have small health centers. Gran Tajarajal has a large health center and emergency room. Of course the main hospital in Puerto has all facilities including A&E

If in doubt and you are injured or ill call 112. They speak fluent English, German and of course Spanish

Also remember the modern hospitals here have NO MRSA or similar to worry about if you do have to be hospitialised - and your family will love you for giving them a excuse to take a cheap flight on Ryanair to see you, probably saving fortunes on car parking charges at UK hospitals

Finally if the worse comes to the worse now we're got some lovely crematorium here you can easily and cheaply get home in a carrier bag

It's probably another Daily Mail EU scare story - remember bent bananas, dodgey sausages, black pudding, rabies, etc. etc. all which came to naught

Brilliant post Spike 

[woe10]

But the only real problem I have with the Spanish system is that it can be very difficult here to set up your own business. As a concrete example, someone with a minimum salary coming in (about 750€ per month) will pay less than 50€ for full social cover, whereas a self-employed person with exactly the same gross monthly income will pay 280€, and if they want to include cover for unemployment, work accidents and sickness periods, then they'll be paying nearer 350€ every month, even if they make less than that amount. That sends many businesses to the wall before they even get off the ground, and means some people have little option other than to work illegally.

I fully agree with you SheilaW. The 280€ you mention for a self-employed ( autonomous ) person is way too high for some people to pay. I've been here a long time, and struggled sometimes to pay it, but always made sure it was paid, no matter what. Not like some that choose to work illegally. Now I'm seeing the benefits, with a Spanish Pension, and free health care.

[Spike On Q]

Everything you say is true Sheila - but surely you must take account of any variations / fiscal requirements before making the move to a new EU state [I know if I was planning a move from Bradford to Wimbledon say, I would need to do alot of research to ascertain the financial implications of such a move]

Then if there are aspects you find unsuitable to you, you have the choice not to move

[bridlife]

I don't think all of these complaints that were made, involved purely the private sector in Spain. I have read several complaints on this forum , about people who have used the Centre de saluds, in places like Corralejo, and had large bills sent to them at a later date, for treatment entitled under the EHIC agreement, when it should have been free.