Special thoughts to all the victims and their families to last nights appalling act, so close to home.
My Niece was there, and other friends. All safe.
Appalling lose of innocent lives for what?
It saddens me who so called humans can act in this way towards others - especially when there is children involved
:(
A bit of a concern, that they can say this Quickly they think they know the As*h*l*s identity, and to have already arrested some one, I hope to God he was not on their "watch list" and there was not a chance to avoid this.
Quote from: Johnrgby2 on May 23, 2017, 15:01:59 PM
A bit of a concern, that they can say this Quickly they think they know the As*h*l*s identity, and to have already arrested some one, I hope to God he was not on their "watch list" and there was not a chance to avoid this.
The problem is John, there are something over 3000 (I think) names on their watch list. IMO, if they have a need to watch them on a terrorism aspect, they should be deported, end of !!
I would much rather see the border security forces massively ramped up to stop "undesirables" getting in than participate in wars elsewhere "to protect us"
Thoughts are with family and friends of the injured and killed !
Been upset most of the day watching parents and family members appealing for sightings of their loved loves !
They have now listed names and photographs of the dead and missing .
They had their whole life to live .
My daughter was there 24 hrs before watching Brian cox.
Makes it even harder when it's on your doorstep .
RIP
X
Quote from: caza on May 23, 2017, 18:03:47 PM
Thoughts are with family and friends of the injured and killed !
Been upset most of the day watching parents and family members appealing for sightings of their loved loves !
They have now listed names and photographs of the dead and missing .
They had their whole life to live
My daughter was there 24 hrs before watching Brian cox.
Makes it even harder when it's on your doorstep
Been there so many times, only 4 miles from our house, seems so unreal that something so bad could happen on our doorstep very sad day..
RIP
X
Spitfire, where do you deport someone to who was born and bred in the UK?
Anchor up an old container ship off the UK coast and stick 'em on there for the rest of their lives!!!
If they are UK born then perhaps revamp the treason law!! Then put them on a remote, uninhabited hebredian island with no resources and let them live like cavemen. (only need a couple of patrol boats to guard the waters. Lets see how they survive then. They want to make us live under a society resembling something from the dark ages (although happy to use 21st century technology to spread their hatred)....Yet choose to live in a society that has progressed from the 16th century. Perhaps re-introduce some of the repealed laws from those days....any form of treachery was soon dealt with then....heads on spikes outside the tower of london etc.
Quote from: Jester10 on May 24, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
Spitfire, where do you deport someone to who was born and bred in the UK?
Simple. If the authorities have them on a terror watch list, it is for a good reason. Deport them to wherever their ethnic family origin is. We are way beyond the time of being politically correct, IMHO
Quote from: spitfire58 on May 24, 2017, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: Jester10 on May 24, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
Spitfire, where do you deport someone to who was born and bred in the UK?
Simple. If the authorities have them on a terror watch list, it is for a good reason. Deport them to wherever their ethnic family origin is. We are way beyond the time of being politically correct, IMHO
International law would not allow for a person to be stripped of the only nationality, no government (unlike something like Duarte in I think Phillipines or Thailand) would want to be seen as such by "international community". ....
... now TREASON LAW revival, could be something that could justify locking up those against the Queen and the country, but again compatibility with Human rights and international perception comes into game.
no clinical solution.....
Quote from: fourthwisemonkey on May 24, 2017, 10:38:47 AM
If they are UK born then perhaps revamp the treason law!! Then put them on a remote, uninhabited hebredian island with no resources and let them live like cavemen. (only need a couple of patrol boats to guard the waters. Lets see how they survive then. They want to make us live under a society resembling something from the dark ages (although happy to use 21st century technology to spread their hatred)....Yet choose to live in a society that has progressed from the 16th century. Perhaps re-introduce some of the repealed laws from those days....any form of treachery was soon dealt with then....heads on spikes outside the tower of london etc.
Hebredians are too nice, may be cold, but there is beauty there!
The best Trump can come up with is the bomber is a loser "God Help Us". What would should happen to show the country is really united is that all UK Mullahs should organise marches in each major UK City demanding that all of their congregations attend, with the intention of condemning in know uncertain terms extremism and violence, and encouraging all of the Muslim community to inform on any suspected extremist, it just never seems to happen.
It's never happened and it never will happen. Main reason being a large percentage of Islamics harbour latent sympathetic feelings for them. Sure you get the odd Mullah condemning them after a major atrocity giving the usual soundbites they think we all want to hear , but a rising up of the muslim population against them...forget it. Its not Islamaphobia ,its not racism..its just the way it is. Only way we will ever stop it is to prevent access to the UK of anyone who could remotely be suspected of carrying it out. If they are British and are already here, lock them up and throw away the key. Harsh yes ...but better than what we have now.
I often wonder what its going to take for the authorities to say enough is enough.
Quote from: Article50spark on May 25, 2017, 15:05:34 PM
It's never happened and it never will happen. Main reason being a large percentage of Islamics harbour latent sympathetic feelings for them. Sure you get the odd Mullah condemning them after a major atrocity giving the usual soundbites they think we all want to hear , but a rising up of the muslim population against them...forget it. Its not Islamaphobia ,its not racism..its just the way it is. Only way we will ever stop it is to prevent access to the UK of anyone who could remotely be suspected of carrying it out. If they are British and are already here, lock them up and throw away the key. Harsh yes ...but better than what we have now.
I often wonder what its going to take for the authorities to say enough is enough.
Well said.
I would deport the British born back to the country of family origin, but failing that, lock up for life & I mean until they die !!
You can't punish a suicide bomber.
But as a deterent you can punish their family and aquaintances. They must ALL be deported.
You cannot say they knew nothing....as Sky News showed, they ARE all linked and their families know what their kids are up to, but just choose to say nothing.
The family of this excuse for a human being came from Libya, and we gave them asylum. This is how they repay us.
Get rid of them and all their associates.
You can't deport most of them, they're British. What you can do, but it will take huge political courage, is to introduce internment for the 3000 or so jihadists who've been identified by the security services as a risk to our society. We'd need to avoid European Court of Human Rights backlash, but we're in the process of extricating ourselves from that farce anyway.
Shame of it is that all the while those with a Liberal take on life are pandered to and the socialist wafflers cry foul every time a drastic initiative is put forward it will remain just as it is. Lets face it we have terrorist sympathisers such as Corbyn, Abbott and MCdonnell running a major political party in the UK. Its a disgrace that they should be allowed anywhere near high office. Anyone who votes for them should hang their heads in shame as an accessory.
Read yesterday that the father of the bomber was a security guard at Manchester airport doesn't bear thinking about
You begin by burning books and end up burning people, do you people never learn?
Whats your answer then. Business as usual?
Quote from: Jester10 on May 24, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
Spitfire, where do you deport someone to who was born and bred in the UK?
No need to deport them, Lock them up and throw away the key.
Quote from: MalT on May 25, 2017, 21:29:40 PM
You begin by burning books and end up burning people, do you people never learn?
That is exactly the reaction that is way to common in the UK today.
I would never condone burning anyone or committing any despicable act on anyone & no reason to get to that point but as long as undesirables that need to be watched to stop them committing atrocities in the UK are allowed to walk freely around & supported, yes, "supported" by do gooders in their political correctness we will never be safe.
I have never been a religious person but "an eye for an eye" is justice to me
Nearly every one of these terrorists have visited the middle east at some point before they go on to commit an atrocity. This last one was in Libya two weeks ago, so if they're on the list just refuse them entry back into the country. Making it quite clear that if they try to gain entry any other way they will be detained indefinitely.
The "watch list" isn't really what it says it is. Whilst i'm sure a good number are being watched. The majority of them are not there just isn't the resources. I think you should tag those on the list then you would know where they are and who they are with. You could also know if anyone of them is in or near and major events and or places. It wouldn't be ideal but if this guy was tagged the police would know within hours of what he did where he had been since being tagged which would help catch the group who helped him. Better still stopped him 100 yards before he got to the venue.
Not having the resources or the money to pay for them should not even be an issue. If they can afford to send 12 billion overseas then they should be more than able to afford to keep their own citizens safe. Whatever it takes is what they should pay out.
For all Teresa May's qualities she needs to get away from the Cameron Government Foreign Aid circus and start prioritizing taxpayers money more efficiently.
Meanwhile, more Coptic Christians slaughtered in Egypt today
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/dozens-dead-gunmen-attack-bus-coptic-christians-egypt/
Is it me or do other people feel uncomfortable if they see videos taken at these mindless atrocities by people in our society that would rather stand and take a video of women and children in utter distress than help? Social media mainly but also mainstream media seem to take over these harrowing events and turn it into a self indulgent sick circus, all the stars come out and grasp at every opportunity for publicity, selfies seem to rule, in our local paper the headlines show three smiling females a mother and two daughters stating "we witnessed the bombing".
I was listening to the Steve Right show this afternoon, someone texted there names and said "just been to lay flowers in Manchester to show our respects" great jocking steve byeeeeeee, why tell the world.
Any sad event will always bring out the gawpers, the voyeurs and the " I was there" saddos. The modern phenomena that is the camera phone is an invention looking for a purpose. Just watch any event, however trivial, and they will be there, hands aloft, filming the most mundane of subjects, just because they can. They were there before the advent of the camera phone and personally, I don`t think that type of person would be much good helping in any emergency, they are life`s spectators. As to the Steve Wright listeners who were compelled to phone in to a radio show to brag about their dubious activities, well, they are sadly of a type that seem to seek out tragedies and rush to put a bunch of garage forecourt flowers at the scene. It goes without saying that any right minded person is truly appalled by such heinous crimes, it is felt deep down in our hearts.
Well said ZZ and thank you. Your last sentence is just so true
Well said ZZ, thank you , I sometimes wonder if it is just me.
I'm there on Friday watching Robbie Williams, I'll get some video footage for you all.
I agree ZZ. The first news report on TV showed 2 characters with their mobile phones out filming all the screaming kids coming down the stairs. They are sick.
But, equally there were many people willing to pitch in and help, rather than gain gratification for posting video on Facebook.
Yes, of course there were, free taxi`s accommodation offered in people`s homes, all now well documented and Manchester and it`s citizens can stand tall, they did their best and god bless them for it.
Quote from: Article50spark on May 25, 2017, 15:05:34 PM
It's never happened and it never will happen. Main reason being a large percentage of Islamics harbour latent sympathetic feelings for them. Sure you get the odd Mullah condemning them after a major atrocity giving the usual soundbites they think we all want to hear , but a rising up of the muslim population against them...forget it. Its not Islamaphobia ,its not racism..its just the way it is. Only way we will ever stop it is to prevent access to the UK of anyone who could remotely be suspected of carrying it out. If they are British and are already here, lock them up and throw away the key. Harsh yes ...but better than what we have now.
I often wonder what its going to take for the authorities to say enough is enough.
I think we might just have reached enough is enough.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 04, 2017, 18:29:39 PM
Quote from: Article50spark on May 25, 2017, 15:05:34 PM
It's never happened and it never will happen. Main reason being a large percentage of Islamics harbour latent sympathetic feelings for them. Sure you get the odd Mullah condemning them after a major atrocity giving the usual soundbites they think we all want to hear , but a rising up of the muslim population against them...forget it. Its not Islamaphobia ,its not racism..its just the way it is. Only way we will ever stop it is to prevent access to the UK of anyone who could remotely be suspected of carrying it out. If they are British and are already here, lock them up and throw away the key. Harsh yes ...but better than what we have now.
I often wonder what its going to take for the authorities to say enough is enough.
I think we might just have reached enough is enough.
I take it paully you are quoting the Priminister ? My issue with that is is she saying we have put up with it until now? but no longer? if so why have we put up with it ????
Quote from: Johnrgby2 on June 04, 2017, 19:06:44 PM
Quote from: Article50spark on June 04, 2017, 18:29:39 PM
Quote from: Article50spark on May 25, 2017, 15:05:34 PM
It's never happened and it never will happen. Main reason being a large percentage of Islamics harbour latent sympathetic feelings for them. Sure you get the odd Mullah condemning them after a major atrocity giving the usual soundbites they think we all want to hear , but a rising up of the muslim population against them...forget it. Its not Islamaphobia ,its not racism..its just the way it is. Only way we will ever stop it is to prevent access to the UK of anyone who could remotely be suspected of carrying it out. If they are British and are already here, lock them up and throw away the key. Harsh yes ...but better than what we have now.
I often wonder what its going to take for the authorities to say enough is enough.
I think we might just have reached enough is enough.
I take it paully you are quoting the Priminister ? My issue with that is is she saying we have put up with it until now? but no longer? if so why have we put up with it ????
Not me mate...I think you must mean 50spark
Senior moment there John ;)
In answer i think we have had to put up with it until now due to political correctness, the skewed up European Human rights agenda, and quite frankly the governments and opposition parties craven denial of the problem. Probably misguidedly thought it would just disappear one sunny day. They seem to have just woken up to the fact it's here to stay and will only get progressively worse unless more drastic action is taken. For a starter in my opinion they should lock up anyone who has set foot in Middle East war zones and only release each individual once fully investigated. Any complaints of Islamaphobia should be tossed where it should always have gone...in the bin. Only my opinion of course, i'm sure others, despite what is happening, will still bay for their human rights even with children being murdered.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 04, 2017, 20:53:12 PM
Senior moment there John ;)
In answer i think we have had to put up with it until now due to political correctness, the skewed up European Human rights agenda, and quite frankly the governments and opposition parties craven denial of the problem. Probably misguidedly thought it would just disappear one sunny day. They seem to have just woken up to the fact it's here to stay and will only get progressively worse unless more drastic action is taken. For a starter in my opinion they should lock up anyone who has set foot in Middle East war zones and only release each individual once fully investigated. Any complaints of Islamaphobia should be tossed where it should always have gone...in the bin. Only my opinion of course, i'm sure others, despite what is happening, will still bay for their human rights even with children being murdered.
Well said
A big part of me agrees with you Sparky, its very difficult for all of the good citizens.My nine year old Muslim niece came home from school early two days before her Warrington school broke up for holidays, she had a bruise on the top of her arm were she had be punched, apparently a group of the kids were shouting Muslim bitch, murderer to her, the bullying had been going on for some time, she was just to scared to tell anyone, I can imagine that going on nationwide and will get much worse. Unity is the only way forward, how? I have no idea.
I watched part of the Manchester concert, hardly seen any sign of a multi cultured Manchester, which is the real Manchester, I understand the thinking behind the concert but not sure if it will achieve anything with regards to unity of communities, quite the opposite, I can only see it causing more hostility, resentment and hatred from all sides of the divide.
And having an American compere was not a brilliant idea, why not a Muslim compere, surely that would send a far stronger message, we have to start somewhere before these sick murdering cowardly bstards make atrocities a daily event.
If I remember correctly it was Liam Gallagher was arrested once for threatening to stab reporters, not a great ambassador for Manchester given last nights events.
My take on that is that again i blame all governments that have been in power for the last sixty years or so both Tory and Labour They have been letting in shed loads of diverse religeon's and cultures without any thought of proper integration. Result is different ethnic ghettos in different areas and cities all following their own road , keeping to themselves and with no idea of what Britishness really is. Result social division , even to the point where no pupil actually speaks English in many schools. It was always a recipe for disaster and you cannot blame the indigenous population any more than the ethnics for their resentment at the way things have been allowed to decline.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 04, 2017, 20:53:12 PM
Senior moment there John ;)
In answer i think we have had to put up with it until now due to political correctness, the skewed up European Human rights agenda, and quite frankly the governments and opposition parties craven denial of the problem. Probably misguidedly thought it would just disappear one sunny day. They seem to have just woken up to the fact it's here to stay and will only get progressively worse unless more drastic action is taken. For a starter in my opinion they should lock up anyone who has set foot in Middle East war zones and only release each individual once fully investigated. Any complaints of Islamaphobia should be tossed where it should always have gone...in the bin. Only my opinion of course, i'm sure others, despite what is happening, will still bay for their human rights even with children being murdered.
Yep ::) It happens.
While I totally agree with your sentiment I just do not see how it is possible?
I have a 12 year old Grandson who made the observation Yesterday, "we should move to Bradford Leicester or Birmingham, they will never Bomb their own" How sad is that from a perfectly normal 12 year old?
Sorry I don't recognise this uk you seem to live in, I live near Cardiff, never seen a racist problem in the city, don't go to Indian, Chinese restaurants do you,?never been to hospital been cared for by a 'foreigner'? Why did people come?because we needed the labour? Or that we're fleeing violence in their own land? Now more than ever we can do without your right wing b"""""t, when we should be pulling together,some seem to think that slamming Islam for the violence of some mindless thugs is ok. Probably this post won't be popular, but there is another way, love to Manchester and London
Quote from: MalT on June 05, 2017, 09:00:44 AM
Sorry I don't recognise this uk you seem to live in, I live near Cardiff, never seen a racist problem in the city, don't go to Indian, Chinese restaurants do you,?never been to hospital been cared for by a 'foreigner'? Why did people come?because we needed the labour? Or that we're fleeing violence in their own land? Now more than ever we can do without your right wing b"""""t, when we should be pulling together,some seem to think that slamming Islam for the violence of some mindless thugs is ok. Probably this post won't be popular, but there is another way, love to Manchester and London
Mal
The problem is we do not pull together, different cultures different ideas and ways to live, I have no problem with that, but they chose to come here to live, so it is for them to adapt to the culture in the UK, as far as is possible, Other than for Rugby games I have not been to Cardiff for nearly 20 years, and the one thing that used to Irk me then was, as You drive down City Road, just before you got to the Albany Road junction there was a mosque, no problem with that, but on the side in very large letters a sign which said "Allah is the only true God" That I had an issue with as now although the UK is multi cultural it is still predominantly Christian { at present} besides the fact that if you did the reverse in a Muslim country you would at BEST be deported.
Quote from: MalT on June 05, 2017, 09:00:44 AM
Sorry I don't recognise this uk you seem to live in, I live near Cardiff, never seen a racist problem in the city, don't go to Indian, Chinese restaurants do you,?never been to hospital been cared for by a 'foreigner'? Why did people come?because we needed the labour? Or that we're fleeing violence in their own land? Now more than ever we can do without your right wing b"""""t, when we should be pulling together,some seem to think that slamming Islam for the violence of some mindless thugs is ok. Probably this post won't be popular, but there is another way, love to Manchester and London
You can be sure it's not popular with me.
Its just the sort of crass denial that is inflaming this situation. These people are acting in the name of Islam , it's a fact. Whether moderate muslims like it or not their religeon is being used to promote violence hate and murder. You do not see any Sikhs involved, or any other creed other than Islamics. What has an Indian restaurant or the NHS got to do with it?. It's the daftest statement i have heard, and i've heard some over the years.
I'll feel you why, looking at previous threads on here around Brexit, it's the old 'johnny foreigner' refrain, that permeates many of the posts, to be different is not a crime, people came to uk, because we are tolerant and welcoming. Most work,pay their taxes and live within our laws and enrich or country and culture
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for those who carried out these attacks , but danger is that if we generate an atmosphere that is anti Islamic, who knows where this will go!!
You just expressed another myth...that Brexit means hatred of other Europeans. Why? who says so?. Why does wanting to leave a Union we feel is not suited to us deserve the accusation of racism. Just because we feel our interests could be better served running our own shop without outside interference does not mean intolerance of others. My God it could be that the ethnic minorities already living here could even benefit. How scandalous and racist is that?. Islamic extremism and brexit have no right to be mentioned in the same breath let alone the same post.
Get real, it's not a chocolate box world. These people need to be dealt with on a different level to the rest of society and if it upsets some but even one life is saved ...then it's just tough on those that object.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 05, 2017, 10:00:43 AM
You just expressed another myth...that Brexit means hatred of other Europeans. Why? who says so?. Why does wanting to leave a Union we feel is not suited to us deserve the accusation of racism. Just because we feel our interests could be better served running our own shop without outside interference does not mean intolerance of others. My God it could be that the ethnic minorities already living here could even benefit. How scandalous and racist is that?. Islamic extremism and brexit have no right to be mentioned in the same breath let alone the same post.
Read between the lines of some of your older posts!
I think you find it mentally challenging to read anything...let alone between the lines.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 05, 2017, 11:36:31 AM
I think you find it mentally challenging to read anything...let alone between the lines.
Ignore him
Only offers criticism and can say nothing constructive himself. .It's hard but i know you are right.
Quote from: Article50spark on June 05, 2017, 12:05:24 PM
Only offers criticism and can say nothing constructive himself. .It's hard but i know you are right.
See who's talking !
(Shut up Johnrgby and keep on ignoring me)
Quote from: erik_tonny on June 05, 2017, 14:51:09 PM
Quote from: Article50spark on June 05, 2017, 12:05:24 PM
Only offers criticism and can say nothing constructive himself. .It's hard but i know you are right.
See who's talking !
(Shut up Johnrgby and keep on ignoring me)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
There is a village somewhere , despite him trying to appear from anywhere other than the UK, I suspect that is where it is, That has lost it,s Idiot can some one tell them we have found him
Just watched the Manchester concert, i do believe it has put the Great back into Britain, i bet the scumbags did not expect that when they went about their evil ways :P :P :P :P
Quote from: malabu on June 05, 2017, 15:19:37 PM
Just watched the Manchester concert, i do believe it has put the Great back into Britain, i bet the scumbags did not expect that when they went about their evil ways :P :P :P :P
Malibu, while it nice to see it is not a solution. Platitudes like this & all the laying of flowers are a product of the public demonstration of "grief & wanting to get something out of a situation" society that we live in today. Long term, it does no good whatsoever & it plays into the hands of the pc/tolerance brigade. Britain is not ""Great" anymore, IMO. It is just a collection of people like any other country.
If we are to make any headway into this current spell of terrorism we need to be a lot more up front. Call it what it is, pretty much every attack in the last few years around the world has been instigated or claimed by Isis, they are fundamental Islamic terrorists who have no respect for life or any opposing views. Until we take a line in the sand approach these will continue unabated & we can have as many concerts as we like, they don't worry them at all. When we make a stand and say every radical will be locked up or deported & if you leave to help/fight with them you will not get back in & any that carry out attacks here will be shot at the first opportunity. THEN we can maybe think about putting the "Great" back in again
Our political elite just don't have the guts to do whats really needed anymore. and thats from top to bottom. Old Winston would turn in his grave to see us allow the enemy from within to roam the UK at will. I wonder what he would have done.
Hi Malt, interesting comments, I think you might be in for a surprise if you look at the hate crime figures and racism for south wales. I have Muslim relatives, really nice hard working people, but I despise their religion with a vengeance, its totally outdated and in certain ways cruel, it does not gel with modern British society, we a breeding ground for young frustrated Muslims easily persuaded that our way is the devils way, mainly because they feel out of main stream society, loners, losers or just plain evil.
It was Blair and his cronies who opened the doors to mass immigration, it had nothing to do with lack of workers, it was all to do with votes for his second term in office, then look what happened.
All in all, there is no quick fix.
It was only a matter of time before the media took the flak off the sickos and introduced the blame game, it follows a pattern every time, first the hero's, then Angels, then the celebs then the blame game. They should remember it was Theresa May when she was home secretary that fought tooth and nail to get shot of Abu Hamza, it was our arrogant out dated legal system and the European courts that stopped her, lay the blame on them not the government or security services. If they were to put one of those potential fanatics in gaol the left wingers led by the terrorist friend Corbyn would scream from the rafters.
I read somewhere there are at least 23,000 knocking around Britain with the potential to commit a terrorist attack. How can you keep tabs on that lot?. It's an impossible task, but it would be made a whole lot easier with some of the 13 billion quid casually thrown at foreign aid diverted to funding extra security measures. That they continue to complain of lack of finance and will not contemplate the idea is a kick in the teeth to the British taxpayer and shows the Governments priority lies with the care of those abroad rather than those being murdered within the UK. I wouldn't vote for any of them on Thursday other than the fact if i don't i could be partly responsible for Corbyn sitting in Downing St. :o
Quote from: Article50spark on June 06, 2017, 13:06:44 PM
I read somewhere there are at least 23,000 knocking around Britain with the potential to commit a terrorist attack. How can you keep tabs on that lot?. It's an impossible task, but it would be made a whole lot easier with some of the 13 billion quid casually thrown at foreign aid diverted to funding extra security measures. That they continue to complain of lack of finance and will not contemplate the idea is a kick in the teeth to the British taxpayer and shows the Governments priority lies with the care of those abroad rather than those being murdered within the UK. I wouldn't vote for any of them on Thursday other than the fact if i don't i could be partly responsible for Corbyn sitting in Downing St. :o
Divert the money to the border security services so once they are out they do not get back in. Round up the 23,000. If they have dual nationality, deport them. If not internment, or leave !! End of !!!
Unfortunately a high percentage seem to be home grown, who would take them? tagging, internment, mental institution for the duration of their miserable sick lives, preferably build the institution off shore, to keep them busy make them work on a pig farm, then bury them at sea.
Same old bull... trotted out this morning. ' We won't let it change our lives, business as usual'. Yeah right.! Apart from another 7 dead victims, Borough market still closed and all businesses including pubs and restaurants shut down. Limited access for nearby residents with some roads still closed after 4 days. Concrete barriers on London's Bridges now standard to stop vehicles deliberately veering off into pedestrians further restricting the flow of traffic. Police armed to the teeth in most airports, stations and other public areas. Election debates closed down for certain days after atrocities affecting the course of democracy. Soldiers advised not to wear uniform in public areas in case of attack after the Lee Rigsby murder. It goes on...
No it's not changing our lives at all is it? Unless you live on the rock of course.
This is supposed to be happening today, it will be interesting to see if any of the news channels think it important enough to pick up on it.
UK imams will come together tomorrow to condemn the recent atrocities in Manchester and London and make clear that there is no religious justification in the taking of innocent lives.
Imams, at an event near London Bridge, will pay tribute to those killed in the terror attacks and speak out strongly against those who commit them. A statement condemning extremism and terrorist violence, endorsed by 500 British Imams from all over the UK, will be read out publicly.
the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.
Quote from: Tamkid on June 07, 2017, 12:44:35 PM
This is supposed to be happening today, it will be interesting to see if any of the news channels think it important enough to pick up on it.
UK imams will come together tomorrow to condemn the recent atrocities in Manchester and London and make clear that there is no religious justification in the taking of innocent lives.
Imams, at an event near London Bridge, will pay tribute to those killed in the terror attacks and speak out strongly against those who commit them. A statement condemning extremism and terrorist violence, endorsed by 500 British Imams from all over the UK, will be read out publicly.
Problem is that even if this happens it still doesn't mean that things will change. There are too many segregated communities in our country. Some would pass on info about an undesirable, a lot will not because they see it as them against us, not all part of UK population. I would love to see Muslims standing up & saying, I will not attend a mosque, I will not wear a beard, I will not wear a burka, etc until this stops. Show themselves to be with the country they live in & against anyone that uses their religion to set them aside
I was told that Britain is so politically correct, that it is not done to order black coffee.
You are expected to ask for coffee without milk.
I think the point I was trying to make is if there is not one iota of news broadcast from the other side i.e. the Muslim community, then what hope is there, if you are saying they should not have a voice at all condemning the sick bstards, and that they should be segregated and treat as lepers. fair enough, if all you ever want to hear is about Muslim atrocities, fair enough.
The majority of my male relatives including myself have served in the armed forces, I love England with a passion. I travel a great deal around Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle and a few more cities on occasions, its all changed, it is what it is whether I like it or not, somehow we have to get real and accommodate, I have no idea how but I am certain more educated people than me could come up with a long term agenda for integration but it has to come from all sides not just ours i.e. UK white Christians.
Integration is fine for the mainstream. But these individuals do not want to integrate in any shape or form. They are just using the UK and it's easy benefits system as a free pass to wage Jihad against the infidel. Thats you and me. And our lax immigration system has made sure they are well and truly free to do it. They may have been radicalized but it was most likely done within the UK and by muslim clerics residing in the UK, also probably living on benefits along with wives and children. The whole system stinks and is rotten to the core. Anything they try to do now is really far far too late, the damage has been done.
"" the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.""
I'm sure your granddad and mine didn't fight facists, for us to turn into racists ourselves!!
Quote from: MalT on June 07, 2017, 15:34:37 PM
"" the trouble is they condone but will not point the finger, im sure if you knew someone who said he was going to commit murder, you would think hard about your own actions, this world is changing, but why should the wrong sort have a say in what we all do, there are enough countries who are Islamic, inform all of them that is the punishment if one member of any family steps out of line with our laws, send them on a plane, reverse charge of course, I don't see why taxpayers should pay, you work all your life to be able to enjoy, family, friends, hobbies, and where you live, ,its your money, no one should say what you do, when or how, tourism is a big money maker for all countries, so Islamic ones are losing out, who would visit now, out of fear, my granddad, god bless him fought two world wars for us lot to be free, do you feel free, then we have to do something today, god bless fuerteventura.semon ends.""
I'm sure your granddad and mine didn't fight facists, for us to turn into racists ourselves!!
They fought so that we could be free to live our lives in peace & prosperity & to stop evil people like Hitler. I am sure a lot of them would be turning in their graves if they could see how spineless & pc we have become.
They fought for the right for Britain to be Britain, not a Sharia state !!
They fought for freedom, for he right of all races and cultures to live their lives in peace without persecution, in my opinion every child should be made to visit Austwich, to see where mans inhumanity to man leads. I've said before on this forum, these terrorists are evil, but knee jerk reactions straight out of the daily mail editorials are not the answer
How do you know what my dad and grandad fought for. I tell you one thing it wasn't for spineless appeasers or to protect those who wished ill will on our family. I doubt my grandad or yours thought of anything but their own country in the trenches. Its just a load of hypothetical nonsense claiming otherwise.
I've visited Aushwitz myself and your statement like most of your others linking present terrorist atrocities and Nazi genocide have no connection whatsover. Another silly post.
I think it just happened again in a nursery for god sake, if I am honest sparky you speak a lot of sense, I cant really get my mind around it, its so beyond me, I have no idea what can be done except exterminate the sick fcks.
tamkid I'm no expert on the subject for sure but one thing i do know is that these people have a type of mindset that interprets any form of benevolence as a sign of weakness. There is no line in the sand where they will respond to appeasement. They will take everything you've got and bite your hand again and again. Some folk just cannot grasp this fact of life.
I lived with my grandfather and know exactly what he fought for and have always followed his example, I cite the facists because I'm sure germans in the Weimar Republic never thought that they would descend into such barbarism, The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing, you people need to get some perspective, millions of muslims and Hindus and no doubt other creeds died fighting for our and their freedom and what's your answer, intern or deport them, these 'muslims' have lived here for generations, they pay their taxes and enrich it society
Quote from: MalT on June 07, 2017, 19:10:20 PM
I lived with my grandfather and know exactly what he fought for and have always followed his example, I cite the facists because I'm sure germans in the Weimar Republic never thought that they would descend into such barbarism, The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing, you people need to get some perspective, millions of muslims and Hindus and no doubt other creeds died fighting for our and their freedom and what's your answer, intern or deport them, these 'muslims' have lived here for generations, they pay their taxes and enrich it society
You have said it yourself MalT.
"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing".
No one (I believe) has said that "all" muslims should be interred BUT there is a section of society that in the current situation that are an evil twisted cancer on the rest of us (and I include ALL decent people in this, black, white, Christian, Muslim & whatever else you want to include)
If as you say " The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" then we cannot sit idly by & let them carry out evil acts on the decent parts of society on this planet. They need to be weeded out & removed by the most efficient means possible.
Like i said some people are just unable to grasp it...
I'm not sure your reading the same thread MalT or what your point is, so far you haven't gave any insight into what you think should happen to help resolve the situation, nobody on this forum has said anything close to what you are suggesting. I do business with Muslims, but I despise their religion and the consequences of extremism following that religion, how would you go about negotiating with these people or what would you do with them?
The usual Liberal mindset. Wonderful Utopian views on the world with absolutely no practical idea how to solve it's problems. If you want the Nazi connection again, they tried to appease Hitler didn't they?, and we all know what ended up happening because of it.
Hopefully today Britain will reject that limp wristed, terrorist apologist Liberal attitude that has continued to fail us.
No ones apologising for the terrorists ,police did exactly the right thing, no problem with shoot to kill in those circumstances and I do appreciate there are no easy answers, just vilifying a race or religion because of the actions of a misguided and deluded few seems extreme.
As said before nobody on here has vilified a specific race, only those within it that abuse their religious beliefs to cause harm to innocents. You still have'nt told us your alternative solution that will solve the problem. In which case it means you are content for it to continue as it is.
this is a verse from the Koran, ive read it, and the Mormon book, and our bible, compare,
War is not an objective of Islam nor is it the normal course of Muslims; it is only the last resort and is used under the most extraordinary circumstances, when all other attempts at just and peaceful solutions to the dispute fail. In Islam, every being is entitled to enjoy a free and peaceful life, regardless of religious, geographical or racial considerations. If non-Muslims are living peacefully or even indifferently with the Muslims, there can be no grounds or justification to declare war on them or to begin hostilities, embark on any act of aggression, or violate their rights.
• Jihad
In Islam Jihad does not mean "Holy war". And is not a declaration of war against other religions and certainly not against Christians and Jews, as some people want it to be perceived. Jihad literally means "striving, struggling or exerting more effort than usual for the betterment of one's self and the community at large." It has an internal, societal and combative dimension.
- The internal dimension of Jihad encompasses the struggle against the evil inclinations of the self; it involves every Muslim's earnest, moral efforts to resist all internal or external inclination towards sin of all kinds. This includes the struggle to overcome problems, difficulties, tasks, and temptations.
- The social dimension includes struggling against social injustice and creating a communal identity based on charity, respect and equality. Also it takes the form of calling people with the community to enjoin good and forbid evil.
- Finally, the combative aspect of jihad is in the form of a just war to be used against aggression or to fight forces of tyranny and evil oppression, and, even then, to observe the strict limits of conduct prescribed by Islam that preserves the life of innocents and the sanctity of the environment.
- Islam rejects all forms of terrorism, extremism, fanatism and fundamentalism. The religion of Islam guarantees the sanctity of life (the life of a non-Muslim is considered as sacred as that of a Muslim), honor, property, and freedom to embrace and practice any religion they freely choose, and all other conducts as long as those conducts do not hurt others. To terrorize people or spread fear in any society or hurt others; all are considered major sins in Islam; Allah prescribed severe punishments for those who are involved in such actions. answer, so they cannot be muslim.
That sounds wonderful. If only all muslims respected those ideals it would be even more wonderful.
I can't see where all this is going. What have moderate muslims got to do with the one's carrying out the carnage. The only thing said on here is that the moderates should be more vocal in their outrage at these atrocities and condemn them as unislamic which up until now they have failed to do on a scale which shows they really mean it. What has all this got to do with beefing up laws to nail the murders among them?
If anyone has a better solution to stop the murder than quoting the Koran and defending anything that impinges on the human rights of hardened killers i'd love to hear it. Truly i would.
8) hi, that's there rule book so I always wonder that there belief, or that of any other is nothing to do with there-struggle-,they are just terrorrists, the united nations and all decent countries should agree that anyone commit any trouble, there rites are removed, even human, and a shoot on sight policy approved by all.its all about running the west into submission, stone age attitude, make it an offence not to turn in anyone for wrongfull acts,
Turn in or prosecute an Immam for not selling out another Muslim and the shrieks of Islamaphobia from the PC brigade would be deafening. It won't work purely because the Liberal elite won't let it. Is that not persecution?...in the eyes of MaIT it probably is.
If you. Check you'll see that the Manchester and one of London terrorists were reported to authorities by fellow muslims, ( the one even appeared bragging on to)but somewhere along the line the system failed and no doubt people are looking at that now. The Muslim community are as horrified and upset as everyone else
Yes they probably are, but again what has that to do with the terrorists and the methods we have to use to stop them.
Still waiting for your liberal solution to this.
As i suspected,...zilch. Can't say I'm surprised.
Well, I know that global warming is bad, but don't know how to solve it, suspect it will be a long complicated process involving many nations, but I do know that continuing to pour sulphur into the atmosphere and pollute the oceans does not help.
Least your honest Malt and haven't a Scooby, I would like to hear how you reckon Muslims enhance our society? I live in the sticks and only come across them during my business trips so in all sincerity I would be interested to know.Out of interest I supply to the care sector, most of it is owned by Muslims or people of foreign origin, I often ask myself why the care sector, I know the answer really, can you work it out.
Quote from: MalT on June 08, 2017, 17:42:04 PM
Well, I know that global warming is bad, but don't know how to solve it, suspect it will be a long complicated process involving many nations, but I do know that continuing to pour sulphur into the atmosphere and pollute the oceans does not help.
Ah the old smoke and mirrors response. You should have been a politician.
Then again maybe you are.
P.S. I thanked your post because it reminded me how glad i am I see it the way I do and the way it actually is.
Not really....I just pressed the wrong key.
And there was me thinking I had won you over with the power of my reasoning 😇 Anyway more important stuff happening tonight, as you may suspect, I'm in the Jeremy camp😩
Of that i had no doubt.
Quote from: MalT on June 08, 2017, 19:41:43 PM
And there was me thinking I had won you over with the power of my reasoning 😇 Anyway more important stuff happening tonight, as you may suspect, I'm in the Jeremy camp😩
Thought you might be. That says it all !!