Fuerteventura Forum

From http://www.thelocal.es/20141003/canary

Canary Islands call vote against oil drilling

Authorities in Spain's Canary Islands on Thursday called a popular vote on a controversial plan to drill for oil and gas off the major tourist destination.

Spain's government outraged the local government, residents and environmental groups in August by giving oil group Repsol the all-clear to explore near the islands' coasts.

Conservative regional president Paulino Rivero told reporters on Thursday he would let residents over 16 vote on November 23rd on the plan, which he fiercely opposes.

"Do you think the Canaries should change its environmental and tourism model for the sake of oil and gas exploration? That is the question that will be put to the vote," he said.

Residents of the archipelago off the northwest coast of Africa fear Repsol's explorations will harm the environment and disrupt the tourism industry on which their economy relies.

The company has been authorized to spend three years probing below the sea bed about 50 kilometres

(30 miles) from the islands of Lanzarote and Fuerteventura.

Under the terms of the licence, Repsol must provide a deposit of â,¬20 million ($25 million) "to cover its environmental responsibilities".

It must stop its explorations if an earthquake stronger than magnitude 4.5 strikes the region.

Those safeguards have not convinced Rivero and local protesters, however.   

A local civil campaign group has called for demonstrations across the seven islands of the archipelago on October 18th under the slogan "We live here, we decide here".

Nice unbiased question, then!

Agreed. Somewhat weighted that one..... but also open to interpretation.

The more I think about it, the less sure I am as to its meaning.

$25 million deposit,  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BP is responsible for close to $40 BILLION in fines, cleanup costs, and settlements as a result of the oil spill in 2010, in the Gulf of Mexico, with an additional $16 BILLION due to the Clean Water Act.

According to my calculator, that's $56 BILLION  :o

A badly worded voting question in my opinion ::)

If oil exploration goes ahead then nothing to do with tourism will change, and if it doesn't go ahead then nothing will change either.

I was reading recently that the studies done so far have shown that there is not nearly as much oil and gas as they had expected to find. Perhaps it will not be in their best interest to pursue it any further?

There could be some effects on tourism. Firstly, I wonder if oil exploration would affect the UNESCO World Biosphere Reserve status. Then I think of places like Lerwick where oil companies are using so many hotel rooms that tourists struggle to find accommodation.

Quote from: fifi on October 03, 2014, 15:34:04 PM
I was reading recently that the studies done so far have shown that there is not nearly as much oil and gas as they had expected to find. Perhaps it will not be in their best interest to pursue it any further?

Maybe, but many studies will report what their sponsors want them to report.
Here in Scotland there have been all sorts of reports saying North Sea oil will run out soon. Then, once the referendum was over, the news agenda changed and apparently new technology means that more oil can be extracted and it will last for decades....

Quote from: duncolm on October 03, 2014, 16:10:13 PM

Here in Scotland there have been all sorts of reports saying North Sea oil will run out soon. Then, once the referendum was over, the news agenda changed and apparently new technology means that more oil can be extracted and it will last for decades....

I think the key issue is the cost of extracting the remaining oil.  Sure, it may not actually run out, but if it costs more to get it out than the market value, who's going to bother?

I can't see that oil exploration activites 50km offshore will even be noticed by tourists.

Will I still be able to buy petrol at the petrol station.  Will they still be able to get supplies from other people's back yards?

Quote from: tiger79 on October 03, 2014, 21:37:06 PM

Quote from: duncolm on October 03, 2014, 16:10:13 PM

Here in Scotland there have been all sorts of reports saying North Sea oil will run out soon. Then, once the referendum was over, the news agenda changed and apparently new technology means that more oil can be extracted and it will last for decades....

I think the key issue is the cost of extracting the remaining oil.  Sure, it may not actually run out, but if it costs more to get it out than the market value, who's going to bother?

My point is that new techniques are, reportedly, making it viable to extract oil from smaller or harder to access deposits. Therefore I wouldn't pay much attention to any reports on how much of it is or isn't there.

As for works 50km out not affecting tourists, then yes, the rigs may be out of sight but you still get workers based onshore going back and forward by helicopter. And you have the question of where would the crude be landed? The Atlantic probably isn't exactly the sort of calm water where it could be loaded directly from rig to ship.
Then again I've enjoyed spending time on a beautiful long beach in New Zealand which had a great big refinery at the end and tankers coming and going...

Quote from: tiger79 on October 03, 2014, 21:38:09 PM
I can't see that oil exploration activites 50km offshore will even be noticed by tourists.

That's what they thought in the Gulf of Mexico. Then all this Black Slime came ashore.

Quote from: woe10 on October 04, 2014, 09:23:23 AM

Quote from: tiger79 on October 03, 2014, 21:38:09 PM
I can't see that oil exploration activites 50km offshore will even be noticed by tourists.

That's what they thought in the Gulf of Mexico. Then all this Black Slime came ashore.

Your life really is full of woe, isn't it?  Lighten up, think glass half-full rather than glass half-empty!

Fair point, maybe only a half our beaches will be covered in black slime.,that wouldn't make much difference really.....

Quote from: Jock719 on October 05, 2014, 09:26:43 AM
Fair point, maybe only a half our beaches will be covered in black slime.,that wouldn't make much difference really.....

As long as it's only the northern beaches affected, there'd be no problem!  ;D

From : http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/10/05/government-under-pressure-to-abandon-canary-island-oil-drilling/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OlivePressNewspaper+(Olive+Press+Newspaper)

"Government under pressure to abandon Canary Island oil-drilling


THE Spanish government is under pressure to abandon oil-drilling plans in the Canary Islands and create a sanctuary for whales and dolphins.

The World Wildlife Fund (WWF) launched its campaign after Repsol was given the go-ahead for exploration off the shores of Lanzarote and Fuerteventura.

These waters are home to nearly a third of the world`s whale and dolphin species.
WWF Spain`s secretary general, Juan Carlos del Olmo, said: “We`re talking about an area that`s Europe`s richest when it comes to whales and one of the top in the world.”

Del Olmo said whales and dolphins would be at threat of oil spills, contamination and loud noises.
Spain`s environment ministry began examining the creation of a sanctuary off the islands in 2011 after the death of several whales in the region.

Drilling â€" which could start as early as October â€" is also causing concern in the tourism industry.
Repsol spokesperson Marcos Fraga said the company ‘respected` the protests, but that opposition was premature.

He said the drilling is first to determine whether the oil reserves exist and how much it would cost to access them.
“From there, we can open a quiet, calm debate regarding the pros and cons, to take a decision as a company, as a society and as a country,” he said.
“But the discovery of hydrocarbons would be good news for the country.”

With unemployment at 33% on the islands, industry and tourism minister Jose Manuel Soria has insisted that Spain ‘cannot afford the luxury` of not knowing whether the gas and oil reserves exist or not."

So what if they do find oil, where will all the money go  :o

I've lived here long enough to know the answer to that  :-X

The wealth never drip feeds to the normal population from an oil strike. The poor remain poor and the few lucky ones get even richer than they were already. Even worse if its an arab country, as apart from keeping the top knobs fabulously rich it also pays for more kalashnikovs and funds for terrorism. And all this while 95 % of the people still live and die in mud huts.....oil in the canaries will have no effect on the local population except if theres an oil spill.

Quote from: Holierthanthou on October 05, 2014, 13:12:17 PM
The wealth never drip feeds to the normal population from an oil strike. The poor remain poor and the few lucky ones get even richer than they were already. Even worse if its an arab country, as apart from keeping the top knobs fabulously rich it also pays for more kalashnikovs and funds for terrorism. And all this while 95 % of the people still live and die in mud huts.....oil in the canaries will have no effect on the local population except if theres an oil spill.

That's rather pessimistic.  If you look at Scotland, the oil industry supports well over 100,000 jobs.  There's no reason why Fuerteventura shouldn't benefit from thousands of new jobs if oil were to be found.

i doubt any island residents will be drilling for oil or take much part in any of the oil production employment offspins. Jobs perhaps, but for who?

I also doubt the scottish oil industry makes much difference to the prosperity of 95% of scots. If it dried up tomorrow they wouldn't even know it had happened.

Quote from: Holierthanthou on October 05, 2014, 17:15:13 PM
i doubt any island residents will be drilling for oil or take much part in any of the oil production employment offspins. Jobs perhaps, but for who?

I also doubt the scottish oil industry makes much difference to the prosperity of 95% of scots. If it dried up tomorrow they wouldn't even know it had happened.

They may not be drilling, but there are massive spin-off employment opportunities which island residents might benefit from, if they can be bothered.

As for Scotland, the oil industry is said to account for 6% of the working population, so it benefits far more than the 5% of Scots you estimated.  Not to mention the tax revenues which help support Scotland's profligate expenditure.

ok the oil industry makes no difference to to 94% of the scottish population and not 95%. Sorry.

 

Quote from: Holierthanthou on October 05, 2014, 18:02:36 PM
ok the oil industry makes no difference to to 94% of the scottish population and not 95%. Sorry.

Still rather blinkered thinking.  Those 100,000+ oil workers earn good money - money which they and their families spend in the Scottish economy, supporting other jobs, bringing wealth to communities.

Bringing wealth to what communities?. Not the have nots from Glasgow thats for sure. Good luck to the chosen 100,000, their families and any others fortunate enough to get the leftovers. But theres no way it filters down to the unwashed masses. It doesn't work that way.

Getting back to Fuerteventura, unlike Scotland theres probably virtually no one with any oil production related skills who could possibly benefit from local drilling. 

Quote from: Holierthanthou on October 05, 2014, 18:38:32 PM
Getting back to Fuerteventura, unlike Scotland theres probably virtually no one with any oil production related skills who could possibly benefit from local drilling.

Oh, come on! The oil industry creates huge demand for transport (drivers, loaders, unloaders, admin people), boat-related support (skippers, crew, divers, cooks, admin), catering (cooks, kitchen staff, waiters, admin), accommodation (maids, cleaners, admin), etc, etc.  Do you really think there's nobody on Fuerteventura that might be able to tackle some of those jobs?

possibly. But the workforce will most likely be recruited and brought in from elsewhere. Its not a foregone conclusion that oil production offshore will bring prosperity to the Canary islands themselves. If it was i don't think there would be as much opposition to it.
All in all i can't see the local jack of all trades and jobless getting too excited about it.

It may not be a foregone conclusion that Fuerte will benefit, but it is likely. Look at Aberdeen, now the wealthiest city in Scotland since the coming of the oil industry.  Could happen to Puerto too, though they say the chance of finding oil is only about 15%.

Quote from: Holierthanthou on October 05, 2014, 19:25:44 PM
All in all i can't see the local jack of all trades and jobless getting too excited about it.

I did talk earlier about "massive spin-off employment opportunities which island residents might benefit from, if they can be bothered."  Maybe you're right, they can't be bothered.

I was a travelling charge hand on underwater pipelines. Two of us travelled, the rest were local Labour employed for the contract. Land based workers ditto. We also chartered local boats and crews, used local yards for ad hoc repairs, spent thousands with local suppliers, etc. etc.  My bar bill at weekends was huge and the local community benefited

PS we did one contract in Grangemouth - all the locals we employed were Glasgow overspill

I'm really divided on this issue; one day I'm against oil exploration because of potential spills, the next I'm for it in hope that it might bring some much needed employment opportunities, probably in the support sectors.
I confess to not having read all the articles that have been published on this and therefore my question might already have been covered, but here goes: isn't the exploration taking place nearer to Africa than The Canaries, and if so, wouldn't any shore base (and the associated benefits) be over there?

The production of north sea oil has not made an iota of difference to the fuel bills of the uk population. In fact we have probably the highest cost in the world to fill a tank of petrol. There's revenue from taxing it yes, but you don't make joe public more prosperous by taxing him, just poorer. Those taxes will end up in the usual black hole of wastage that successive British governments have been so good at filling

I don't dispute that S on Q had a very jolly time and there was money spent by those fortunate enough to be earning it. But i do dispute it had any effect on the major part of the population.

But as fuel production is of such benefit to us all i shall be looking forward to the long awaited start of fracking. Cheap gas for us all !! Having lived in rip off Britain most of my life i won't be holding my breath on that one. Yep the extractors will profit and there will be quite a few others making a mint out of it. But the the rest of us? Forget it you won't even know it happened..

...unless of course you're unfotunate enough to live above a bore hole.

Quote from: TamaraEnLaPlaya on October 06, 2014, 01:28:15 AM
I confess to not having read all the articles that have been published on this and therefore my question might already have been covered, but here goes: isn't the exploration taking place nearer to Africa than The Canaries, and if so, wouldn't any shore base (and the associated benefits) be over there?

No. You can see on the map below that they will be within the borders of the Canarian waters.

Click to enlarge

Map of proposed Oil Prospecting

(http://webimg.eu/artikel/42642-1398838481-1000052.jpg)

Map of proposed Whale & Dolphin sanctuary
from: http://www.care2.com/causes/profit-from-oil-or-protect-whales-and-dolphins-canary-islands-its-your-choice.html

(http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/causes/uploads/2014/07/care2-map.jpg)

Good to see that they've already decided to give maximum protection to the beaches in the south!  :D

In Africa - with all the security issues, perhaps not!

Quote from: TamaraEnLaPlaya on October 06, 2014, 01:28:15 AM
I'm really divided on this issue; one day I'm against oil exploration because of potential spills, the next I'm for it in hope that it might bring some much needed employment opportunities, probably in the support sectors.

Likewise, Tamara. I think I might just wait to see how things pan out with the exploration before I start getting too hot under the collar.
[quoteisn't the exploration taking place nearer to Africa than The Canaries, and if so, wouldn't any shore base (and the associated benefits) be over there?[/quote]
It looks pretty much halfway across, but I don't think Repsol, being Spanish, would base their ops in Africa. But if Repsol don't investigate won't some Moroccan company do the work, just a couple of km further away? I suppose that if oil is found then they'll all be at it if they can, but I'd rather Repsol were involved first. I might not trust them wholeheartedly (actually, I don't much at all) but I do reckon their operations will be a little safer for both people and the environment.

From: http://www.thelocal.es/20141021/oil-found-200-kilometres-off-canary-islands
"
Morocco oil find shakes up Canary Islands vote

Drillers say have found oil in Moroccan waters just 200 kilometres (125 miles) from Spain's Canary Islands, a possible game changer as Canarians prepare to vote on whether Spanish energy giant Repsol should be allowed to search for oil in the waters off the archipelago.

With a month to go before Canary Islands residents vote in a non-binding consultation on whether controversial oil exploration plans should be approved in the archipelago`s waters, the terms of the debate could be affected by the announcement that crude has been found in nearby Moroccan territory, Spanish daily El Mundo reports.

The Genel-San Leon-Serica consortium has said that it has found oil at a depth of just under three 3,000 meters off the coast of Sidi Ifni, a former Spanish colony in southern Morocco, near the border with the disputed Western Sahara territory.

The English-Turkish consortium will now request permission from the Moroccan government to carry out further tests to see if the oil is of commercial quality. Both Spain and Morocco have been searching for oil in the same Atlantic region for the past 15 years, but this find could be the most encouraging yet for either side.

The find is located some 125 miles northeast of the Canary Islands, and only 80 miles from the area in which Repsol is due to start exploration later this year after the Spanish government approved the oil giant`s prospection plans.

This decision enraged environmental campaigners in the archipelago and the Canary Islands government has responded by calling a popular vote on November 23rd in which people will be asked if “the Canaries should change its environmental and tourism model for the sake of oil and gas exploration”.

The government in Madrid had said the vote is illegal and will make no difference.

Industry sources quoted by El Mundo say that the Sidi Moussa-1 area where the Genel-San Leon-Serica consortium has made its find is geologically “very similar” to the Canarian undersea zone in which Repsol plans to prospect to greater depths of up to 4,000 metres. The same sources say that if the find was confirmed as commercially viable, this would “shift the debate” in the Canaries as “it would give Repsol the benefit of the doubt”.

Spanish Energy Minister José Manuel Soria, who is also the leader of the Popular Party in the Canary Islands, has said it would be “absurd” to watch on as Morocco exploited its oil reserves while the Canaries allowed its oil to remain locked underground.

The Spanish government hopes that oil discoveries in the Canary Islands could supply 10 percent of the country`s needs.



"

Before you can vote you must sell any fossil fueled vehicle you own and attend the polling station on foot or by bicycle

Also you must commit to living in a tepee or cave and not use electricity or other fossil fuel generated power source. You must not use water provided by desalination which uses HUGE amounts of electricity, only water generated by natural means, condensation!

Oh and the real winner - - you can't use the internet - it needs electricity -- so we wont have to listen to this anti oil rubbish any more

Yes heard a lot of that opinion recently, even among MP's. Unfortunately they turn out to be NIMBY's

From: http://www.thelocal.es/20141101/canaries-oil-plan-prompts-eu-complaints

Canaries oil plan prompts EU complaints

Major environmental campaign groups and local councils complained to EU authorities on Friday over plans to explore for oil and gas off Spain's Canary Islands, a popular tourist destination.

Authorities in the Canaries oppose the government-backed plan by oil giant Repsol to spend three years probing below the sea bed 50 kilometres from the islands of Lanzarote and Fuerteventura.

The World Wildlife Fund (WWF) and Greenpeace plus municipal councils on the two islands all said they were lodging complaints against the project.

Greenpeace accused the Spanish government of delaying moves to have the two islands listed as European protected natural areas so the oil plan could go ahead.

The WWF said in a statement that the plan breached EU directives on conservation of flora and fauna such as dolphins.

The two councils meanwhile told AFP they had complained of irregularities in the awarding of exploration licences to Repsol and complained that the project will threaten their vital tourism sector.

A European Commission official confirmed it had received four complaints against the Repsol plan and was investigating them.

The Canary Islands regional government also opposes the plan and has called a referendum to allow residents to vote on it, but the national government has blocked that via a constitutional appeal.

Repsol has promised to take steps to protect the environment and says the project will create jobs in the islands, where the unemployment rate is over 30 percent.

Protesters demonstrated across the Canaries on October 18th.

Greenpeace has sent its campaign boat Arctic Sunrise to the islands and erected a six-metre replica oil spout in protest.