Fury as Spanish 'trick' British holidaymakers into paying for emergency healthcare
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333428/Spanish-government-facing-EU-punishment-countrys-hospitals-refused-accept-European-healthcare-cards-used-millions-UK-tourists.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333428/Spanish-government-facing-EU-punishment-countrys-hospitals-refused-accept-European-healthcare-cards-used-millions-UK-tourists.html)
Disgraceful >:( >:( >:(
Holidaymakers should take out Travel Insurance to be on the safe side. I always do when I go away.
If we weren't in the EU we wouldn't be entitled to it. Anyway, The EU are on the case and the Spaniards have backed down.
Though I really can't understand people who go on holiday without proper private cover, including repatriation costs and then whinge about not being able to pay for what needs paying for if something happens. The idiots expect someone else to bail them out if the worst happens.
If it's my health at stake, it's belt and braces; which in my case means over 65s cover for bi-polar disorder, angina and occasional vertigo. My wife and I get full cover from Saga for c. £80 so the cost is minimal, especially since everything else is covered too.
Contact the local Spanish Embassy in your own country to get their opinion and response. Email address for the Spanish Embassy in Dublin is emb.dublin@maec.es
I ALWAYS travel with Insurance - wouldn't dream of going without it
Whilst I fully agree that people must take out travel insurance. The crux of this issue is that Spanish hospitals failed to honour the EHIC, in order to cash in,using travel insurance as a vehicle to do this, when these accidents/injuries were fully covered by the EHIC.
Anybody explain why it is anybody can come to the UK and get free medical care without travel insurance??? or is that just a Myth the Daily Mail is spreading about????
Because the UK is a joke.........................
The EU is also a joke. Now they're insisting that the UK give any Tom, Dick & Harry from an EU country, full benefits. just like the Brits who have paid their way for the last 40 years.
You can't come here and claim benefits the next day, so what's so different about Spain ???
It's a great point woe but the UK will never change - gutless and not ideal scared of the EU Laws etc etc,,,,,Never mind us mugs working our ass off and getting nothing out of it >:(
Treated like 2nd class citizens in our own backyard....
Quote from: woe10 on May 31, 2013, 21:52:10 PM
The EU is also a joke. Now they're insisting that the UK give any Tom, Dick & Harry from an EU country, full benefits. just like the Brits who have paid their way for the last 40 years.
You can't come here and claim benefits the next day, so what's so different about Spain ???
The problem is that most of Europe has a contribution system where if you haven`t contributed into the system you don`t get anything out. The UK has a resident based system where if you are considered a resident of the country you get the benefits that UK has setup. Personally I think if UK went to a contributory system it would be much better as you would get what you have put in if you needed it.
That explains why they're all flocking to the UK. They don't like their system of having to PAY your way in life.
I know some here that don't pay their way, and when they have medical bills to pay, they have a problem
:-X
There are said to be 100 cases where medical aid by Spanish Hospitals was refused where the claimant claimed they had a valid EHIC card, this out of 12, 000,000 claims. Lets see what the outcome of the investigation is. So many holiday makers don't know they MUST go to a Canary Island Health Service clinic not the private ones in resorts like Caleta and Costa Calma where treatment will be refused until payment is secured. I even know of holiday company reps taking an unconscious, overdosed client to a local private clinic instead of called 112 and getting immediate skilled help from a highly qualified Paramedic and immediate access to all medical services straight away
The Captain will correct me but Corralejo, Puerto, Antigua, Tunieje, Pajara, Morro Jable all have small health centers. Gran Tajarajal has a large health center and emergency room. Of course the main hospital in Puerto has all facilities including A&E
If in doubt and you are injured or ill call 112. They speak fluent English, German and of course Spanish
Also remember the modern hospitals here have NO MRSA or similar to worry about if you do have to be hospitialised - and your family will love you for giving them a excuse to take a cheap flight on Ryanair to see you, probably saving fortunes on car parking charges at UK hospitals
Finally if the worse comes to the worse now we're got some lovely crematorium here you can easily and cheaply get home in a carrier bag
It's probably another Daily Mail EU scare story - remember bent bananas, dodgey sausages, black pudding, rabies, etc. etc. all which came to naught
Spike, you make that sound so attractive.....
This EHIC thing is bad, but I suspect some of the NHS Health Boards (or whatever the equivalent in NHS England are called * ) have tried stunts which are at least as bad.
* Just remembered - Trusts
Excellent Spike, I no a few punters on Tam who swear by the Island medical services.
Most people take out insurance incase the worst happen, big money is being made from the smaller holiday cases that need medical attention. Most holiday insurances you pay the first £100/£200 pounds, thats where they get you. Corallejo.....needed some antibiotics for wife broken tooth infected the gum overnight... 100 euros, did not accept health insurance card, told to claim it back when we get home............. perhaps the spanish should pay here in the UK just to keep things balanced untill sorted.
kaynig - where did you get charged 100 euros? Not at the Government Health Centre by the bus station in Corralejo?
All Government Health Centres in Fuerteventura have large posters in Reception that explain your rights and requirements for Canarian, Spanish and other EU citizens. If you are from other EU states you need to produce your EHIC card and your passport, thats all and you will be treated free of charge.
The charges are divied up in a central EU office and each EU country pays their citizens health care costs for the period.
This is SO important to understand. The Spanish do pay for any healthcare they need in the UK if the UK doctors or hospitals collect the EHIC card details and make the claim. BUT I have to use my British EHIC card when I'm in the UK as I'm registered in Fuerteventura for health care. I have never seen any notices or never heard of anyone being asked to provide EHIC cards in UK hospital so the UK loses out by not making the claims
The Corralejo medical centre (which is actually quite big, Spike, with a casualty section and specialists etc), accepted our French EHIC cards with no problem before we registered for health care here. Never charged us anything. A lot of tourists go to the Brisamar PRIVATE place, which is fine if the insurance is going to fork out, but they won't accept the cards there.
BTW, if you pay for your holiday by bank card, and who doesn't nowadays?, you automatically get some insurance cover. It's not going to pay for normal medical expenses (that's what the EHIC is for, after all), or lost luggage etc., but it does cover the really big, life-shattering events like air ambulances. That's all we ever use. Repatriation is important, as long as you're alive, especially when you live on an island. I'd hate to spend any more time than necessary in an NHS Hospital! :o :D
What are the average health care cost, per person, per month, in Fuerte?
Here in Holland I pay around 90 euro per month, with a yearly 800 euro policy excess for anything that falls out of basic care.
Quote from: growers on June 02, 2013, 00:57:40 AM
What are the average health care cost, per person, per month, in Fuerte?
Here in Holland I pay around 90 euro per month, with a yearly 800 euro policy excess for anything that falls out of basic care.
Are you talking state health contributions, growers, or private health insurance - I imagine it's private, with that talk of 'policy excess'? If so, I can't help as I've never had private health cover, I don't think. I say "I don't think" because I can't remember what we actually had during our 3 years in the Netherlands - Shell picked up the tab for those things for its pampered expats. :)
Here in Spain, a self-employed person (autonomo - with an accent somewhere), pays a minimum of about 280€ per month. But that's not just for health cover; it includes retirement pension and one or two other things that you have to contribute to. But then there isn't much else to pay for on top - a little for prescriptions, that's all (I hope!). It isn't cheap here with that minimum being so high. In France, it's possible to pay as little as 18% of your income for the same package as a self-employed person: if you make 3000€ one month, you contribute over 500€, whereas the next month you might get in 500€ and contribute less than 100€ for the same excellent health care and pension entitlements.
I don't know about salaried employees.
What you could do, if you were living here and working without a contract and not paying contributions, and you fall ill and need the Emergency Helicopter ( €6000 ) to take you to Las palmas, you could get all the 'law Abiding' Residents to organise a 'Charity Do', to chip in and pay it for you :o
Thanks for your repy Sheila, everybody in Holland has now private insurance. In the good old days before the credit crunch salaried employees and the self imployed with a average income had a sort of state health care it was called (ziekenfonds) maybe that rings a bell. Our health care cost doubled about five years ago and then doubled again when they enforced the first 800 euro own risk every year.
I quite like the sound of the french systeem that seems fare enough to me.
The spainish 280 euro minimun is quite steep I take it thats per person, so for us it would mean 560 euro a month, and that for a low key operation.
Sheila I worked at Shell(Ämsterdam) aswell in the early 1980's....small world
Good idea Woe. It reminds me of a local Rugby Player who after breaking his leg decided it was time to hang his boots up i.e. forced retirement. We felt sorry for him and had loads of pub charity nights, raised about £5000. He managed to recover on a THREE week holiday in the Caribbean taking in a weeks cruise, real treasure of a man, what a bunch of mugs, don't say anything.
Sorry Sheila - as they say it's not size that matters it's how you use it!!!!
The EU Treaty allows restrictions of movement based upon a citizens ability to support themselves. Smaller, attractive countries [like Malta] have been doing it for years.
Now other states are recognising that some control is required, hence the changes to the regulations here.
As the British systems collapse - more bad news about the NHS, bent politicans, etc., etc. so the UK will become less attractive. As we already know the money is running out
Should we shrink into our shells and support the poor and needy only from our own local communities?
Gawd 'elp us!
Quote from: Spike On Q on June 02, 2013, 20:20:08 PM
Sorry Sheila - as they say it's not size that matters it's how you use it!!!!
Don't get me wrong, Spike, I support the idea of contributing to a health system before I expect to claim on it. In fact, having been salaried in the UK from school to departure, I didn't actually realise at the time that some were not contributing but were actually getting totally free NHS care.
In France, if an EU citizen arrives there, they are expected to contribute, or get private insurance, as here. The slight difference from the situation here is that French state health care only covers 70% of most things, such as doctors' and specialists' fees, X-rays etc, and medication, and sod all for dental, vision and hearing problems, amlthough there's a maximum you have to pay for long in-patient stays, and if you have a long and/or serious problem (cancer, diabetes...) you get 100% cover for anything actually related to its care. Sometimes, you'll be expected to pay 100% and then get back the state part, other times, you'll just get the bill for the non-covered part, but you rarely leave without paying something. I quite like that, as you can choose whether to pay the extra out of your own pocket or get top-up private insurance, as most people do. Actually, that ends up looking rather like the Dutch system.
I've not had too much back from the Spanish system yet (touching wood for good health to come), but it seems that everything here is "free", or seems to be to the average not-too-bright citizen. How can you assess the value of something, or call it a waste, if you don't have any idea of its cost? That applies to the UK system, too.
But the only real problem I have with the Spanish system is that it can be very difficult here to set up your own business. As a concrete example, someone with a minimum salary coming in (about 750€ per month) will pay less than 50€ for full social cover, whereas a self-employed person with exactly the same gross monthly income will pay 280€, and if they want to include cover for unemployment, work accidents and sickness periods, then they'll be paying nearer 350€ every month, even if they make less than that amount. That sends many businesses to the wall before they even get off the ground, and means some people have little option other than to work illegally.
Anyway, that's all getting a bit off-topic. I hope that UK holidaymakers here find that their valid EHIC cards (rather than the old E111s) are accepted by Fuerteventura medics working within the state system. Just make sure you go to a "Centro de Salud" rather than to a "Clinica".
Quote from: Spike On Q on June 01, 2013, 16:27:40 PM
There are said to be 100 cases where medical aid by Spanish Hospitals was refused where the claimant claimed they had a valid EHIC card, this out of 12, 000,000 claims. Lets see what the outcome of the investigation is. So many holiday makers don't know they MUST go to a Canary Island Health Service clinic not the private ones in resorts like Caleta and Costa Calma where treatment will be refused until payment is secured. I even know of holiday company reps taking an unconscious, overdosed client to a local private clinic instead of called 112 and getting immediate skilled help from a highly qualified Paramedic and immediate access to all medical services straight away
The Captain will correct me but Corralejo, Puerto, Antigua, Tunieje, Pajara, Morro Jable all have small health centers. Gran Tajarajal has a large health center and emergency room. Of course the main hospital in Puerto has all facilities including A&E
If in doubt and you are injured or ill call 112. They speak fluent English, German and of course Spanish
Also remember the modern hospitals here have NO MRSA or similar to worry about if you do have to be hospitialised - and your family will love you for giving them a excuse to take a cheap flight on Ryanair to see you, probably saving fortunes on car parking charges at UK hospitals
Finally if the worse comes to the worse now we're got some lovely crematorium here you can easily and cheaply get home in a carrier bag
It's probably another Daily Mail EU scare story - remember bent bananas, dodgey sausages, black pudding, rabies, etc. etc. all which came to naught
Brilliant post Spike ;D ;D
Quote from: SheilaW on June 03, 2013, 15:17:16 PM
But the only real problem I have with the Spanish system is that it can be very difficult here to set up your own business. As a concrete example, someone with a minimum salary coming in (about 750€ per month) will pay less than 50€ for full social cover, whereas a self-employed person with exactly the same gross monthly income will pay 280€, and if they want to include cover for unemployment, work accidents and sickness periods, then they'll be paying nearer 350€ every month, even if they make less than that amount. That sends many businesses to the wall before they even get off the ground, and means some people have little option other than to work illegally.
I fully agree with you SheilaW. The 280€ you mention for a self-employed ( autonomous ) person is way too high for some people to pay. I've been here a long time, and struggled sometimes to pay it, but always made sure it was paid, no matter what. Not like some that
choose to work illegally. Now I'm seeing the benefits, with a Spanish Pension, and free health care.
Everything you say is true Sheila - but surely you must take account of any variations / fiscal requirements before making the move to a new EU state [I know if I was planning a move from Bradford to Wimbledon say, I would need to do alot of research to ascertain the financial implications of such a move]
Then if there are aspects you find unsuitable to you, you have the choice not to move
I don't think all of these complaints that were made, involved purely the private sector in Spain. I have read several complaints on this forum , about people who have used the Centre de saluds, in places like Corralejo, and had large bills sent to them at a later date, for treatment entitled under the EHIC agreement, when it should have been free.
are the European health cards worth the plastic they are printed on ?
Bridlife - Please provide ONE proven example [not hearsay] where an EU citizen carrying a valid EHIC card and passport has been charged for medical treatment by the Canarian Government that is available free of charge to residents of the Canary Island
Why do some people seem so keen to deride a system and who's staff have provided excellent healthcare to many foreign nationals free of charge for many years?
As a UK old age pensioner I receive first class healthcare here in Fuerteventura that is paid for WITHOUT QUESTION by the British government. I do however follow the rules of this benefit TO THE LETTER!
what a saint you are spike
Of course I cannot name names of individuals, and I will leave that to the current court case. And I can only go on what people have reported on this forum. I know of one case where people , despite having all the necessary paperwork, have been totally refused there right to healthcare here. This is also subject to investigation. You are one of the lucky one's who are established here.
Not a saint stedge, as friends will tell you, but what I have discovered through life is to live by the rules - when you try and bend them you always end up loosing - therefore it is purely selfishness for that easy life that drives me
Can someone refer me to the links with regard to cases where people have been refused medical care at a Gobierno clinics?
Fraid to say you couldn't be more wrong spike. Theres people make bending the rules and dodging responsibility an art form and seem to do very nicely in life as a result. In fact i find its usually the other way round , the sticklers for regulations and doing the right thing generally bear the load of the ones that don't. Not fair i know but streetwise is king.
And as an addative the original post was regarding holidaymakers. They don't have your wonderful foresight and added pleasure of living there. When one of their kids is ill or hurt they take them to the nearest medical facility regardless.
I doubt most would know a Gobiemo clinic from a tapas bar.
I used the public health centre in Corralejo 2 years ago and I had no problem with getting free health treatment. Little waiting time too. I showed my EHIC and passport and do speak Spanish. I wonder if those who did not get free treatment did make it clear that they had and showed their documents.
I have since learnt I was directed to the wrong medical centre, I was directed to the Brisimar med centre, it wasnt until all details were taken, that we were told no that card is no good here, and to claim it back on our travel insurance. I am correct in thinking the one we need if the ocassion arises is near the bus station. Still lesson learnt.......
You're right about holiday makers not knowing the difference between public and private health facilities. That must be the responsibility of the tour companies, apartment and hotel providers, etc. to ensure the customers are aware of where treatment is available
Perhaps more use should be made of 112 in emergencies - bringing highly skilled medical help to a seriously ill or injured person can often be more effective than running around look for a health centre in strange town
We are each, individually, responsible for our health and health care. To pass this responsibility to a tour rep is asking to be directed to a private clinic. Sadly, the calibre of tourist is often such that they are incapable of this, the most basic of responsibilities. Too many of them think they are in Blackpool with an nhs casualty department just for them.
If you rang for an ambulance where would they take you?. Nearest medical facility private or public, or straight to a public?
Depends on the severity of your problem - but the crew normally is one paramedic and one technician and they make the decision where treatment is best given after first responder treatment is completed. They also have access to helicopter services if required.
To my knowledge it would be one of the Canarian Government Health Service 24 hour emergency treatment facilities including A&E in Puerto and access to a raft of specialists.
Many of the private health clinics rely on the Canarian government ambulance service to move patients to the hospital in Puerto when they consider them to require serious emergency treatment
OK thanks spike.
Thats blown my conspiracy theory that it could be government policy to influence medical services to ferry patients to fee paying establishments.
I think there is probably more chance of that happening in the UK especially if MP's are on the board of the private health company