Increasingly people are leaving Spain: both strangers and Spaniards
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/10/15/espana/1350297856.html (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/10/15/espana/1350297856.html)
The lesser people in Spain the bigger the real estate problem as there will be nobody to buy the empty condo's and houses.
The ones that are leaving have not got any money so could not afford to buy the ones that are wanted are those who have got money and have not yet heard of the bargins that are available
@ gusangus where are the bargains ?
Just walk into any estate agents office with a big roll of bank notes and make an offer at half of the asking price, then negotiate away. As you've got the cash you have the upper hand, they want to sell, have a property that no one wants [except you] and they are often forced to sell at a loss. It's called supply and demand, there are 100's of properties for sale in the supply chain and nobody demanding them, price reduces to where property begins to sell as it becomes a perceived "bargain".
Also with the threat of prosecution for illegal lettings there will be even more properties for sale. ??? :'(
Ok. At half the asking price I'm interested.
We have the cash ready to show.
They (the owners) have their debts to pay.
The mad rush to buy will only begin when prices start to go up. Thats when the scavangers will panic they are missing the boat of rock bottom prices. And go up they will.....eventually.
@Stedge: prices will go up earliest 2015 if one compares to US or Ireland.
Due to the outflow/emigration this might even take longer as both US and Ireland didn't have emigration of the Spanish scale.
http://news.yahoo.com/spanish-emigration-sharply-2012-132913831.html (http://news.yahoo.com/spanish-emigration-sharply-2012-132913831.html)
540,000 people in 12 months: 80,000 Spaniards and 460,000 foreigners is at least 200,000 more empty houses/condo's in tourist area's.
Currently they don't sell 200,000 houses/condo's a year in the costa's and canaries. So there might even be an increase of empty properties on the costa's which will result in an even longer time before prices go up 2016 ? 2017 ? 2108 ?
True enough it may take some time. But rather than give your property away for nothing my advice would be that if at all possible hang in there. The time WILL arrive when your place will again be an asset rather than a millstone round your neck.I don't have much time for the bargain hunters purely for the fact that someones rock bottom gain is someone elses dream gone down the plughole along with all the dinero invested in that dream. I have a sneaky feeling things may turn around for home owners a lttle bit quicker than the vultures would hope. As for the emigration, people come and people go. It will even itself out over time. Less Spaniards maybe but a few more rich Russians .
House prices have started to rise in Dublin I am happy to say. Long may it continue. :)
Apparently the same in the Uk fifi.
Thats good Stedge. :)
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/workers-benefits-avoid-eviction-082441660.html (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/workers-benefits-avoid-eviction-082441660.html)
Sorry, folks; don't get too excited just yet.
Spanish real estate prices will drop - significantly 35%- 40% or more due to:
- keeping up the appearances will cause more trouble afterwards
- any process men disturbs has a bigger overshoot: banks are keeping up the prices
- the small population of possible buyers: Norway - Sweden - Denmark - Switzerland and Belgium
- the higher retirement age: previously people would be retired at 55 - now they will have to wait until 62 at least - that's a gap 7 years of people that won't buy a place in the sun as they have to sit in their office - until they might be just too old to go and buy a place in the sun.
The people with money are in Asia: Inditex (=Zara & all their other brands) became #1 fashion retailer of the world due to their worldwide presence and winning mainly from H&M with more locations in Asia. People from Asia are not going to buy real-estate in Spain - certainly not in Fuerteventura.
Do you have a hidden agenda PeterHeirman? I am getting a bit fed up with all your gloom and doom posts. We know what is happening, but most of us put a smile on our faces and get on with it. Nearly all your posts since you joined this forum seemed to be aimed at highlighting the unfortunate property situation.
I think this thread should be merged with the El Hierro one, seem to be made for each other! :o :o
Don't worry. he forgot the russians. The red rouble will save us all.
I agree with Peter, Emmi, purely on the grounds of common sense and history repeating itself. Perhaps you're lucky enough to be young - but not too young to learn, I hope.
The Spanish banks are going to have to bite the bullet at some stage and write down their inflated housing stock, thus causing prices to fall even further. Either that or they'll go bust. No amount of wishful thinking can change that. It's just politically unacceptable to expect the new European Bail-out fund to cater for that kind of mismanagement.
Prices will not start to rise again until the true rock-bottom is reached which will be when all of the artificial masking factors are ironed out of the market.
No one in their right minds would buy at the moment.
no one in their right minds would sell at the moment either.
I am not saying I disagree with his predictions, just fed up with hearing them day after day. And I am old enough to remember the UK recession and property crash of the early 70s, when I had to sell a property and lost a lot of money on it. However, if I had been lucky enough to have been able to hold onto it, today's value is around £750,000 +! (even in the current market) :-X
There's still money coming to the island at the top end of the market. Foriegn investors continue buying up plots of land and building on them to their own specifications mainly in the more rural areas. The cost of some of these
places by wealthy Danes and Russians etc are testament to the fact that the euro crash holds no fears for these people. Problem lies at the bottom end of the market. Developers built these apartments and houses en masse for a quick turnover sometimes in iffy locations and they got away with it for a long while. Not so now. For the owners of these it makes no sense to sell now when theres thousands of empty ones going begging, you will just be making someone else a few bob long term out of all your hard efforts . It may well take time to turn around, 2 years, 5 years who knows?. Not even you peter i'm afraid. History (and common sense) dictates the fact it will... its all a question of timescale and if you can hold out long enough.
A sensible statement, Stedge! 8)
Agreed, Stedge; Time to sit tight for a while I think, and watch.
I have no hidden agenda. Seems I present facts some of you don't want to hear (and 99% of Spaniards probably don't want to hear at all).
There is a big real-estate problem (bigger than the US and Ireland ever had) and it won't get solved by sticking your head in the sand of Corralejo dunes (this is what Spanish banks are doing as else they are probably bankrupt at the real prices for the real estate they own - banks own over 50% of the empty condo's and casas).
@waggy - I hope you survive while sitting tight as the decrease in prices can last for 5 years - if ever.
Good luck with selling to Russians or getting them as a neighbor.
What would you like us all to do then ?. Panic and sell up for the circling sharks to make a killing. No thanks mate i know the problems are vast at the moment without you telling me but i'll do as waggy says and hold tight if you don't mind. And i hope others are sensible enough to do the same.
Not a great lover of the Ivans personally but i'd have no trouble taking their money if i chose to sell and was lucky enough to get a buyer. In fact i'd relish the prospect.
Perhaps I shouldn't say this, Peter and Stedge: I've been retired for 2 years now and should, if Plan A had swung seamlessly into action, have been enjoying it in Fuerte. BUT, when things started to go mammaries upwards in 2008, my muse and I thought, 'Now hang on a goldarned minute; let's see how this pans out before we make a move.'
So here we are, still on Anglesey, having our 2 hols a year on Fuerte (except for one in Kerry last month, which didn't really feel like a holiday, being on the same latitude with the same lack of quality sunshine). We're still waiting for it to bottom here and there but on the up side, Anglesey is the English Costa Geriatrica nowadays and so house prices are holding pretty well due to steady demand for retirement homes. And my muse is delaying her retirement a bit further.
It's all writing, fishing, birding and gardening with free prescriptions so, lack of sun and Winter blues apart, life's pretty contented at the moment. I have to say, though, I'm really looking forward to that fortnight in February.
sellers and purchasers have different ways of looking at the situation wag and i think mr heirman is waiting for the deal that will crucify some unsuspecting home owner. Have a good retirement and i hope you eventually get a great property deal if or when you decide to go for it. ( without sending the original owner to the workhouse though)
Peter talks a lot of common sense, Stedge, and is not afraid of telling it as he sees it. It's in keeping with my own thoughts on the matter.
Having said that, if I had gone ahead 4 years ago I would have become one of the afflicted as it were. But, on the other hand, if I'd retired to the place of my dreams the loss of money would not have counted for very much - at least my kids would not have been saddled with so much inheritance tax.
Why should people over a certain age continue to think of property as an 'investment', why not as a home, instead?
mr heiman seems suspiciously too ecstatic at the dismal economic situation for my liking wag.
QuoteWhat would you like us all to do then ?. Panic and sell up for the circling sharks to make a killing
Quotei think mr heirman is waiting for the deal that will crucify some unsuspecting home owner.
Quotemr heiman seems suspiciously too ecstatic at the dismal economic situation for my liking wag.
Indeed!
And here's the hidden agenda as said by Mr. Heirman:
QuoteOk. At half the asking price I'm interested.
We have the cash ready to show.
They (the owners) have their debts to pay.
i'll double the asking price and he can have it for half of that lol.
no debts you see mr hierman )
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/spains-santander-bank-reports-profit-085903449.html (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/spains-santander-bank-reports-profit-085903449.html)
Mmmm, I wonder what effect this is going to have? If Santander are writing down the value of their 'assets', will the others follow suit and, if so, what will be the effect on property prices across the broad spectrum?
Hi Steve Not seen you much on the forum
Hope you are well and do not let Herman the German upset you too much. Now there is a blast from the past 8)
Yes Danny mate all is well thanks. Hope the same with you although i suspect you must be getting ready to batten down the hatches for one of those dodgy winters you get up there. Take care and keep cosy.
Hi Steve
Could acually batten down the hatches as been out sailing today and I am on the boat tonight. Do not worry I will not get frostbite as have the heater on.
Was in El Cotillo end Sept at El Cal and as usual I brought the rain with me, same happened when was there last October. Am I a jinks????
Got an email this morning from Goldacre - 2 beds/ 2 baths on Chipmonk now 48,375.00 Euros. At that price who needs to rent it out anyway!
Quote from: falkirkdan on October 25, 2012, 22:38:54 PM
Hi Steve
Could acually batten down the hatches as been out sailing today and I am on the boat tonight. Do not worry I will not get frostbite as have the heater on.
Was in El Cotillo end Sept at El Cal and as usual I brought the rain with me, same happened when was there last October. Am I a jinks????
I think you must be dan. i'm out there end of november so hope you are not there with your rain clouds.
@Stedge - good for you you haven't got debts. Congratulations.
Many others do have mortgages and debts. Their situation is different as it keeps them awake at night.
I'm lucky but i don't need congratulating. Just wondering what it is that compels you to continually inform us of the financial suffering of overseas homeowners. I think you made your point a while ago so maybe you just get off on it.
@Stedge: here comes your haircut:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-29/spanish-bad-bank-emerges-confirms-spanish-real-estate-absolute-disaster (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-29/spanish-bad-bank-emerges-confirms-spanish-real-estate-absolute-disaster)
And you or Don Quixote won't be able to stop this real estate bleeding (32% on finished real-estate - at least)
No haircut for me Mr heirman. The value of bricks and mortar is only relevant if you are buying or selling, and i'm doing neither. It could hit the lowest of the low or the highest of the high and it wouldn't make a jot of difference to me. Unfortunately i'm afraid there are, as you have joyfully informed us, those who will have sleepless nights and become prey to the property predators much like yourself. I just hope that with all your gloating, your apparent greed will bring about your come uppance.
We have recently retired and bought a lovely house in the sun, we hear all the doom and gloom but we look at the house as our home and not an investment and just plan to enjoy the layed back lifestyle and sun. We considered staying in England till I could retire but our wonderfull Government decided to change my pension date from Jan 2014 to March 2019 5 years was just too long to wait so here we are loving our new life.
I would tell anyone to go ahead and move you never know whats round the corner.