A place in the sun magazine is featuring a three page article about the "illegal lettings" in the Canary Islands in their August issue. Click on the page to magnify.
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/41.htm (http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/41.htm)[/url][/url]
Page 2 &3 http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/43.htm (http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/43.htm)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x469/fifisforumphotos/Capture-5.jpg)
Hi Fifi, thanks for putting this up, it makes an interesting read, but strange that these articles so far don't make any mention of Fuerteventura. I was out there in June and companies (don't want to mention names) were still advertising holiday accommodation on residential complexes, when I asked in a number of places about this clampdown people just seem to be completely confused by it all so are carrying on as normal! :o
Hi lander, the courts are tied up with first and second appeals from the Tenerife and Gran Canarian fines and some have even been thrown out of court because they have not been able to deal with them within a six month period.
Because of this it will probably take a long time before we hear of anything on such a large scale in Fuerteventura. Janet Anscombe the campaign leader did say that there were fines being processed for Fuerteventura in one of her previous articles.
I met a lady in Corralejo a few weeks back who was telling me about an owner one of the Infinity villas (I think that is the name of them from memory) being fined €18,000. It was believed that someone locally denounced the owner.
I have heard about Rental /Estate agencies which have been inspected on the Island.
Fi, if you edit the link and change the 43 at the end to 41 it will take you to the first page of the article ;D
Great Deso. :) Going to do that now.
No that doesnt work either Deso. :D
This should work then.
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/41.htm (http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1xnst/APlaceintheSunAugust/resources/41.htm)[/url][/url]
;D 8) :P
I bow to your superior knowledge oh great one. ;) :D
Here goes again. ;D ;D ;D
Perfecto. :-*
I didn't get to be a leg end for nothing you know. It took a lot of posts about complete drivel. ;D
Good karma sent your way. Did you feel it? I pressed your praise button. :D
OOOOH!! I got a plus 1 , I'm all relaxed and at peace with the world now. :-*
So it really works. I knew it. ;)
I can't read that but found it here
http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx (http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx)
Interesting to say the least.
So the agents and owners are being fined, what about the actual holiday makers who are renting, will there come a time when they will get hammered as well.
I hope not obviously, as we are renting a villa in September and wouldn't like to get embroiled in this stuff.
Quote from: HH on July 31, 2012, 08:19:52 AM
I can't read that but found it here
http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx (http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx)
I wonder why you cant read it HH. It opens for me. Thanks for the other link. I have put the original link back on. :)
Quote from: KWC54 on July 31, 2012, 09:26:15 AM
Interesting to say the least.
So the agents and owners are being fined, what about the actual holiday makers who are renting, will there come a time when they will get hammered as well.
I hope not obviously, as we are renting a villa in September and wouldn't like to get embroiled in this stuff.
Holidaymakers were being threatened in Tenerife with Police action and eviction and harassed with documents saying that they were breaking a consumer protection law by attempting to stay in illegal property. I doubt you will have any trouble at all unless a nasty neighbour wants to do a denuncia. Fuerteventura and Lanzarote were the last on the list for the inspections and so it will take a while before they catch up.
Quote from: fifi on July 31, 2012, 09:48:31 AM
Quote from: KWC54 on July 31, 2012, 09:26:15 AM
Interesting to say the least.
So the agents and owners are being fined, what about the actual holiday makers who are renting, will there come a time when they will get hammered as well.
I hope not obviously, as we are renting a villa in September and wouldn't like to get embroiled in this stuff.
Holidaymakers were being threatened in Tenerife with Police action and eviction and harassed with documents saying that they were breaking a consumer protection law by attempting to stay in illegal property. I doubt you will have any trouble at all unless a nasty neighbour wants to do a denuncia. Fuerteventura and Lanzarote were the last on the list for the inspections and so it will take a while before they catch up.
Thanks for that fifi.
Its acrazy situation isn't it! so they are effectively driving in more nails into the local businesses, due to this heavy handed rules etc. They will force more and more visitors into the AI hotels, with an even bigger drop in the SC customers willing to spend in the local establishments.
Can't they work that out?
I can understand why there should be a law like that enforced to be honest Kenny. It safeguards the consumer by ensuring certain standards and also creates revenue for the Government through taxes etc. It is no different really to the laws in other countries for letting out property but the fines at between €18000 and €300,000 are higher than some countries.
The problem is that the law had been around for donkeys years and was never enforced. People were duped into buying properties with "great rental potential " by Estate Agents. Without this rental from Holiday lets a lot of people can not afford to keep up the mortgage payments now because of the recession.
The Government issued press releases about the new team of Tourist inspectors and the enforcement of the old law which were not taken by the press and therefore the majority of people did not know that it was being enforced. Because of a Moratorium on licenses villa owners are unable to make themselves legal by getting one and people who had bought on complexes which had changed their status from Touristic to residential could not legally let out through a sole agent if there was one .
In the coming months there will be draft proposals put forward for changes. These changes will allow complexes which were previously Touristic to once again have a chance of operating legally. There will also be changes to the current sole agency part of the law. Residential complexes will not be effected by any change and will always be illegal to let out for holidays. Some land which is currently listed as being urban is being changed to Touristic and this may help people with villas in the future if they bring back licenses. There is a proposal being put forward to the European Parliament about the reintroduction of villa licenses but it is expected to take years before anything is done about it.
The majority of people would welcome being able to let their property legally and that is what the campaign is about. :)
I can appreciate that owners have to pay taxes, as we do here etc, but its the heavy handed - no notice penalties that are hard to swallow. Over here we have to declare our additional earnings and make the payments to the tax dept. Im not aware of a supplementary licence of such, could be wrong as I don't rent out over here either ;)
I agree. It is heavy handed. I think that there should have been a warning given for a first offence instead of an €18,000 fine. In the Uk you need to get permission from Local authorities for letting as far as I know if you want holiday letting status.
Quote from: fifi on July 31, 2012, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: HH on July 31, 2012, 08:19:52 AM
I can't read that but found it here
http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx (http://www.aplaceinthesun.com/news/feature/tabid/131/EntryId/1955/Trouble-in-paradise-the-Canaries-rentals-clampdown.aspx)
I wonder why you cant read it HH. It opens for me. Thanks for the other link. I have put the original link back on. :)
Hi Fi - Don't know why but its a good read anyway. Thank you :)
There a lot of people who by now wish they had not even heard of fuerteventura let alone sunk a very large sums of money into the island but stupidity will come home to roost the banks will i am sure will be adding more unsaleable property's to there already huge stock pile, then you have the death duty rip off, and of course the airlines are cutting flights this winter due to short sited government idiots.It will really hurt not just the bar owners ect but the stupid policy makers that think there are no other holiday places to spend our hard earned cash. :(
The outlook is not good read all 5 slots
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18338616 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18338616)
"Banks have 155.84bn euros of loans at risk of not being
repaid. That is 9% of all loans."
I don't accept this figure.Ireland,with an economy one tenth the size of Spain's and having experienced and almost identical property boom/bust is facing a bill of €70bn for it's bank bailout.
Spain does not have a reliable house price index based on actual selling prices. The Spanish housing figures are usually based on an asking price index . Asking prices and sales prices are not the same. The real figures would be closer to Irelands drop of 50% in house prices. The banks are undervaluing their bad debts.
Ammendments to the law (Translated)
The Governing Council requested the Advisory Council opinion on the draft law amending the Law 7/195 of 6 April
26/07/2012 ... 14:14 - Prime Minister's Office
The proposed amendment touches on three articles of the Law 7/1995: the 35 (standards relating to the tourist resort), the 75 (very severe offenses tourism) and 83 (tasks of the inspection tour)
The Governing Council decided to consider and seek opinion of the Advisory Council on the draft of Canary Law amending the Law 7/1995 of 6 April, on Tourism in the Canary Islands.
The proposed amendment touches on three articles of the Law 7/1995: the 35 (standards relating to the tourist resort), the 75 (very severe offenses tourism) and 83 (tasks of the inspection tour). The current wording of the first two (35 and 75) is given by the Law 14/1999 of December 30, amending the Law on Tourism 1995.
The change is intended in Article 35 is to add a third section (currently two), which was inadvertently omitted when handled amended by Law 14/2009. In this paragraph 3 shall be collected, and now collected in identical terms, exceptions to the standards of maximum permissible density on parcels intended for tourist accommodation, set out in paragraphs 1 and 2 thereof. These exceptions apply to alojativos establishments that are located in historic buildings and artistic, and architectural interest listed by the planning and are planned in urban non-residential tourism.
The amendment is intended to Article 75, is to add a new paragraph (1. Aa) after paragraph 1 thereof. This is intended to describe more clearly and precisely one of the behaviors that can be described as "very serious offense" and is consistent in construction, expansion, reform, rehabilitate or open a tourist accommodation lacking the "requisite "administrative authorization. The provision is mandatory determines when this authorization by reference to the Act to develop the Guideline 27, contained in Law 19/2003 of 14 April, which approved the General Management Guidelines and Management of Tourism in the Canary Islands (currently is pending which will come into force next year).
The amendment in Article 83, is to add a section 3 (currently two) so that tourism businesses can legally give the inspectors tourist personal data that are necessary for the exercise of its powers. Thus we claim the possibility provided in Article 11.2 of the Organic Law of Protection of Personal Data, Article 11.2, which states that whenever authorized by law, we may transfer personal data without consent stakeholders for the exercise of legitimate functions
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd223/kevinhelly/Were-All-Doomed.jpg)
:D :D :D
Excellent find Fi.
Interesting that it's 'aplaceinthesun' jumping on the bandwagon.
I had a disagreement with them about 3 months ago. They had an article about properties in Fuerte and the rentals you could achieve - holiday lets.
I contacted them and told them the current situation and how they were mis-leading potential customers, and leaving themselves exposed to potential litigation. They refused to believe me at the time - but obviously now the penny has dropped - so they're talking the alternative view.
;) ;) ;) 8)
Hi Surfjames, well done. :) I received an email from Holiday lettings.co.uk a good while ago asking me if I wanted to advertise with them. I explained the situation to them and sent off all the links to the laws and they have now got an article on their website too advising people of the law. Before that they were totally unaware of the law. http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/resources/owner-advice/buy-to-let-guide-for-your-holiday-home/tourist-apartment-licences-in-the-canaries-and-balearics,-april-2012/a-1-29-2680/ (http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/resources/owner-advice/buy-to-let-guide-for-your-holiday-home/tourist-apartment-licences-in-the-canaries-and-balearics,-april-2012/a-1-29-2680/)
I have spoken to Holiday Lettings who say that they will remove the advert of anyone who does not have a relevant touristic license. They have 1,802 properties in the Balearics and 2,147 properties in the Canary Islands and I should imagine that the vast majority (if not all) of these do not have a license. Instead of sticking to the law (which would affect profits somewhat) they should join the campaign to change it.
Good point Florence. They have loads of customers and therefore loads of clout.
It's not for them to decide who can or cannot advertise their Canarian property based on a licence.
(I bet when they work out the lost revenue they'll change their minds ;))
Incidently, I've notice a lot of properties getting pulled off these sites by the owners, once they have enough bookings, only to reappear the following spring.
Hi Florence. That is interesting. I wonder if it has anything to do with Government pressure? It happened before with one of the Holiday letting companies.
Also there was an amendment to the law on 26th July which may or may not affect how companies operate in the future.
Translated by Google.
The amendment is intended to Article 75, is to add a new paragraph (1. Aa) after paragraph 1 thereof. This is intended to describe more clearly and precisely one of the behaviors that can be described as "very serious offense" and is consistent in construction, expansion, reform, rehabilitate or open a tourist accommodation lacking the "requisite "administrative authorization. The provision is mandatory determines when this authorization by reference to the Act to develop the Guideline 27, contained in Law 19/2003 of 14 April, which approved the General Management Guidelines and Management of Tourism in the Canary Islands (currently is pending which will come into force next year).
The amendment in Article 83, is to add a section 3 (currently two) so that tourism businesses can legally give the inspectors tourist personal data that are necessary for the exercise of its powers. Thus we claim the possibility provided in Article 11.2 of the Organic Law of Protection of Personal Data, Article 11.2, which states that whenever authorized by law, we may transfer personal data without consent stakeholders for the exercise of legitimate functions
I have passed on the information to Janet and hope to find out her opinion on this.
My laptop lead is broken and I am waiting on a new one so I am on a borrowed laptop at the moment which will have to be given back soon :'(
I had a quick look at Holiday Lettings terms and conditions.
Reporting Inappropriate Content
If you consider any of the content of any videos, photographs or any other material posted on our site by any Advertiser to be offensive, discriminatory, defamatory or libelous or otherwise inappropriate ("Inappropriate Content"), please notify us of such content by sending us details of the content you consider to be inappropriate and the reason why you consider such content to be inappropriate.
Upon receipt of notification that any content is considered to be inappropriate, we will review such content and shall decide whether to remove such content from the site.
Please send details of any content which you consider to be Inappropriate Content to us:
By email to: videoreport@holidaylettings.co.uk
All the Inspectors would have to do there is to say that most of the properties are illegal and ask for them to be removed. The illegal letting cases are probably a nuisance for the company because the Lawyers were trying to suggest that information on the holiday letting websites may not necessarily be accurate etc etc
It would be easier for them to have the paperwork to prove that the properties on their books are legal I guess.
Janet Anscombe the lady who is leading the campaign has been in touch with me. She was saying that the big holiday rental websites are getting jittery about the whole thing. She has spoken with the lawyers from two of them, and a researcher from a third - and they seem to be wondering if they will be deemed to have a duty of care to those who advertise with them. This is particularly true when they have related magazines or journals which now carry articles about the problem, and of course recently even the British Embassy in Madrid issued a press release warning of it - only 18 months late ...
Janet does not think that it has anything to do with data protection issues, really, because under Spanish data protection legislation, if the Government thinks an offence has been committed then data protection is waived anyway. This is why those agents who refused to cooperate with the inspectors on the grounds of data protection have received extra fines.
The Advertising websites have a big interest in getting this law amended, along with these other stakeholders:-
Ryanair, Easyjet, Air Berlin and any other airline carrying independant passengers;
Real Estate agents;
Nortysur and other similar shops that sell furniture and linen to foreign property owners;
Tourist attractions such as water parks and the zoo;
Conveyence lawyers and Notaries;
All restuarants and bars;
Taxi and transfer companies;
Supermarkets;
The list is endless and involves practically anyone in the Canaries because somewhere along the line their livelyhood depends on tourism.
I am surprised that there has been so little interest in Fuerteventura to be honest Florence. I think it is a case of "We wont worry about it until it affects our bank balance". There will be mayhem when the complexes that were previously Touristic start trying to set up Sole Agencies. Now is the time to be watching how Tenerife are doing it and learning from their experience. In Tenerife, Business owners, Taxi drivers, and everyone else who was likely to be affected got together to voice their opinion on the matter and because of that some changes are on the way. If Airline routes are not profitable they are soon pulled and most are on short contracts anyway.If there is any fear of litigation I can understand why the Holiday lettings sites would think twice about going against the Spanish Law too.
Hi Florence I sent you a PM earlier. Just in case you emailed a reply to me, I no longer have the Forum email address and so please PM me back via the Forum (in confidence). :)
I have replied - hopefully you will receive ok.
There is a forum which is a spin off from Janet Anscombs site if anyone is interested. :)
http://holisnaps.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl (http://holisnaps.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl)
Quote from: Deso on August 09, 2012, 19:14:54 PM
There is a forum which is a spin off from Janet Anscombs site if anyone is interested. :)
http://holisnaps.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl (http://holisnaps.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl)
Thanks Deso. Must take a look at that later on. :)
PS. I cant manage to get into it with the password that was emailed to me for some reason.
Do we know if any fines have been issued in Fuerte as yet?
I have heard of a few. I have only seen one in the Boletins. They only show the cases of people that they are unable to contact. I think the ones so far in Fuerte are neighbours denouncing each other.
Whilst I have sympathy for people who bought their apartment / villa on a complex with a veiw to renting and therefore receiving income , please consider those of us who bought our villa in what were told would be a solely residencial street , only to find that because the developer cant sell them he is now renting them out as holiday rentals .
And when you have holiday rentals you undoubtately get lots of very noisy kids and adults who are understandably excited because they are on holiday , but I bought my house because of the location and the fact it was going to be residencial .
This is such a difficult issue. Like moodyblue, I don't want a bunch of noisy holidaymakers to be living next door to me all summer. I also sympathise with those who bought with renting in mind. I just don't see how a complex can be changed touristic retrospectively? I suspect anyone with an apartment on a complex will never be permitted to rent short term.
Hi Steve, the changes that are on the way will effect the complexes which once operated with Touristic status. They lost their status when they were sold to private buyers and will once again have a chance of regaining it and operating legally. There are also changes on the way to the sole agency part of the law but it is not clear yet exactly how that will work.
There will be no changes to complexes which were always Residential.
There are no plans at the moment as far as I am aware to start issuing licenses for villas either but a proposal has been sent to the EU and it is expected to take several years before we hear the outcome on that.
Maybe if people had declared an income from letting their property & payed taxes(MANY DIDN'T) the goverment would of realised how much income they can make!!
I wonder just what percentage of holiday rentals are "illegal"?
It appears to me that any on Residential complexes are automatically illegal, many on the previously Touristic classified complexes are illegal because they don't comply with "the rules", most, if not all, villa rentals are illegal, as the owners have no licence.
If my assumption is correct, most of the tax on rentals which does go to the government is from illegal activities - surely they won't stoop so low as to accept the tax and then fine the owners for renting their property out - or would they?
It will never happen, but I think the best way forward is to declare an amnesty for a period of 4 to 5 years to allow all property owners to get their house in order i.e. to comply with the rules. Tax on all rentals must be paid during that period (otherwise a very hefty fine for tax avoidance). In the meantime the government needs to act to re-licence those properties deemed appropriate for holiday rentals.
If people could pay tax without fear of being fined, even for 4 to 5 years, it would do much to boost the government's coffers. Owners who know that after the 4 or 5 years they will have to stop renting will at least then have time to sort themselves out, maybe even sell up if their property ownership is dependent on rental income.
http://www.lanzaroteinformation.com/content/lanzarote-property-owners-update (http://www.lanzaroteinformation.com/content/lanzarote-property-owners-update)
Thanks to Spike on Q for this article. :)
The Lanzarote Island plan is interesting. They are planning to cut the amount of Tourist beds. Quality not quantity seems to be their idea.... http://www.lanzaroteinformation.com/content/lanzarote-island-plan-2012 (http://www.lanzaroteinformation.com/content/lanzarote-island-plan-2012)
Quote from: lionfish on August 15, 2012, 09:46:26 AM
I wonder just what percentage of holiday rentals are "illegal"?
It appears to me that any on Residential complexes are automatically illegal, many on the previously Touristic classified complexes are illegal because they don't comply with "the rules", most, if not all, villa rentals are illegal, as the owners have no licence.
If my assumption is correct, most of the tax on rentals which does go to the government is from illegal activities - surely they won't stoop so low as to accept the tax and then fine the owners for renting their property out - or would they?
It will never happen, but I think the best way forward is to declare an amnesty for a period of 4 to 5 years to allow all property owners to get their house in order i.e. to comply with the rules. Tax on all rentals must be paid during that period (otherwise a very hefty fine for tax avoidance). In the meantime the government needs to act to re-licence those properties deemed appropriate for holiday rentals.
If people could pay tax without fear of being fined, even for 4 to 5 years, it would do much to boost the government's coffers. Owners who know that after the 4 or 5 years they will have to stop renting will at least then have time to sort themselves out, maybe even sell up if their property ownership is dependent on rental income.
An amnesty like that would have been far better than the way they handled the situation I think Lionfish. Properties which were previously Touristic will be given the chance to regain their status. Some changes are on the way thank goodness.
Sitting idly yesterday, watching the world go by, my eyes fell on the backs of the properties on Alcalde Marcial Sanchez Velasquez (in Caleta). From the top, Gaudia, Bahia Sol, Puerto Del Sol, Tahona Gardens, (Las Arenas?), Amuley Mar 1 and Amuley Mar 2. Of these, Puerto Del Sol appears to be derelict and Tahona Gardens operates as an tourist hotel complex (therefore presumably "Touistic"?) the other 5 complexes are presumably all "Residential" and most, if not all, will have been built in the last 8 years.
Surely all these complexes, plus many more around Caleta, were built with the approval of the island planners? If they are for residents only where on earth did the planners think these residents would come from? There is no doubt in my mind that the expectation was for a substantial proportion of holiday letting as very few people would buy a property just for their own holiday use, especially people who work and have limited holidays. I know for a fact that Gaudia was heavily marketed in Ireland with clearly no expectation that the purchasers would become residents.
My view is that the planners who allowed all the over building are largely responsible for the holiday lettings mess, along with the sales people who no doubt advised people of the holiday renting potential as a means of funding a mortgage.
If the fines continue then I'm sure we can all envisage the vast number of unoccupied properties falling into neglect as people hand back the keys and former residents leave the island because they can't get work.
What will the posh 5* A.I. guests think of the island as they are driven past hundreds of derelict properties before they finally arrive at their prison for the week - they surely won't want to go out walking amongst the squalour which will remain after all the other businesses have closed down and owners have left the island?
Its not just Caleta & other major resorts that will suffer. The rural villages are in danger if this clampdown on licenses extends to private non complex houses, as i would think 99% don't have one. Our village will die a death overnight if it does. All the local businesses - ferreterias, restaurants supermarkets and bars among others will suffer as in my experience around 60% of customers are either holidaymakers, foreign homeowners or the people that work for them. All those that live in the villages including Spaniards who work on these properties will be virtually redundant including gardeners, maid services, electricians, plumbers, pool cleaners and general rental companys Even now local businesses are finding it hard to survive with some only lasting a few months before closing down. What chance if half the customer base is destroyed in one go.? I really hope it doesn't get to the stage where we will find out the real impact. But unfortunately i think we will.
Quote from: lionfish on August 21, 2012, 09:33:09 AM
Sitting idly yesterday, watching the world go by, my eyes fell on the backs of the properties on Alcalde Marcial Sanchez Velasquez (in Caleta). From the top, Gaudia, Bahia Sol, Puerto Del Sol, Tahona Gardens, (Las Arenas?), Amuley Mar 1 and Amuley Mar 2. Of these, Puerto Del Sol appears to be derelict and Tahona Gardens operates as an tourist hotel complex (therefore presumably "Touistic"?) the other 5 complexes are presumably all "Residential" and most, if not all, will have been built in the last 8 years.
Surely all these complexes, plus many more around Caleta, were built with the approval of the island planners? If they are for residents only where on earth did the planners think these residents would come from? There is no doubt in my mind that the expectation was for a substantial proportion of holiday letting as very few people would buy a property just for their own holiday use, especially people who work and have limited holidays. I know for a fact that Gaudia was heavily marketed in Ireland with clearly no expectation that the purchasers would become residents.
My view is that the planners who allowed all the over building are largely responsible for the holiday lettings mess, along with the sales people who no doubt advised people of the holiday renting potential as a means of funding a mortgage.
If the fines continue then I'm sure we can all envisage the vast number of unoccupied properties falling into neglect as people hand back the keys and former residents leave the island because they can't get work.
What will the posh 5* A.I. guests think of the island as they are driven past hundreds of derelict properties before they finally arrive at their prison for the week - they surely won't want to go out walking amongst the squalour which will remain after all the other businesses have closed down and owners have left the island?
Great post lionfish.
The cycle goes round and round.
1.Holiday company screws owner of a complex so hard, that the owner struggles to keep up the maintenance.
2. Tourists stop going because it's run down.
3. Private developer buys up run-down complex, changes status to residential, sells units as holiday homes.
4.Purchasers are prevented from renting, some units abandoned or sold for next to nothing.
5. Complex becomes run down due to fall in maintenance fees.
6. Complex sold to another developer.
7. Go back to 3.
This is possibly a very cynical view of the situation.
For goodness sake AUTHORITIES. Get some common sense. Pass a new law allowing private rentals. Collect more tax and allow the island to become a vibrant place again. :) :) 8)
True enough Surfjames. :)
Hi all, i dont totally understand what has been going on,, but have logged on to this post as have just returned from FUE and heard a few things that were "going on". Our apartment that we rented is managed by a company who clean and rent out the apartments on the owners behalf and one of the staff told us that "officers" of some kind were on the island whilst we were there to catch out the owners who were renting that dont pay tax. We were asked to say by staff member that we are NOT renting but that we are merely borrowing/gifted the apartment from a relative. One person had been caught out in Caleta (according to staff member) that week and was fined 18k. Obviously i was concerned that should the owners of the apartment we had rented not paid this "tax" the we would be chucked out. I was told that would not happen, but reading post above it looks like it could happen. I spoke to an owner of another apartment in our block and she said that she pays her tax and it as less than 300 for a large 3 bed apartment per year. So if the amount is so small, why wont people pay it? surely you can recoup it through renting? Surely its not worth taking the risk of being fined such a huge amount? or am i totally reading this wrong and there is much more involved? if so i apologise, as i said i have not read the full details of the subject in the links people have posted. So now it leaves me with the question that if we book again for ext year how do we know if the owner has paid their tax and if not what is the likelyhood that we will get chucked out of apartment? all sounds a bit risky to me, which would be a shame if this is true as we really want to return next year as we loved FUE.
Hi - it is not a simple as owners not paying tax. The owners would love to be legal and pay tax (and some do pay tax on their property in the UK) but as the authorities are not issuing licences and this forces the owners underground. The company mislead you somewhat as the issue is with licences - not tax (although that would follow on). Most owners pay a non residency tax anyway (I did).
I visited my lawyer today in Caleta to discuss how I could stop the properties on my development being let out to holidaymakers on short term holiday lets , she has advised that in the first instance she sends a letter to the offending party asking it to stop because it is illegal , if that does not work she will then have a denuncia served on them.
She told me that the authorities in Fuerteventura are beginning to clamp down on such illegal letting , and she had two such cases on her desk that she was defending , one owner had been fined €60,000 :o yes sixty thousand euro , she thinks that there is going to be a lot more similar cases very soon .
Thanks for that interesting bit of news Moodyblue.
The fines can go up to €300,000. Most private owners are fined €18,000 per property if it is a first offense and Letting agents are usually fined around €60,000. Second offenses are considered more serious and the fines increase then.
I find some of the content of Moodyblue's post a bit concerning. If he is disturbed by noisy holiday makers I have every sympathy. We have just returned from a long stay in our own apartment and found the whole complex extremely noisy, as it is most summers. BUT, most of the noise comes from Spanish (and other nationalities) children who are on holiday from school and their parents/Grandparents who supervise them around the pool. These are residents, not holidaymakers. There are also Spanish families who own properties on the complex and use them just for holidays. Yes, there are some British holiday makers and yes, they do make noise, but generally far less than the residents!
It has been mentioned in other posts that following a denuncia complaining about holiday rentals there is a good possibility that this will attract "the inspectors" and lead to fines for the owners. I supose Moodyblue's lawyer will be happy to appeal against the fines on behalf of the owners? Nice little earner if I may say so:- issue a denuncial, get the owners fined and then defend them against the fine - quids in!
My big concern is that all these fines will lead to empty properties, closed businesses and a deserted island apart from retired pensioners who can't go out for a meal because the restaurants are closed, can't do any food shopping because the food shops are closed, can't repair their properties because the ferriterias are closed etc. Is that what we want?
One only needs to look around most complexes in Caleta to see the number of vacant properties already and that is before the inspectors really get their teeth into Caleta.
Before any one thinks I have a personal axe to grind, we own our apartment outright, so we have no mortgage to fund and we use it ourselves for around 5 months of the year. We also have two couples who are longstanding friends that we allow to use the apartment for a total of 6 to 8 weeks each year. We do not take any money from them, so hopefully this will not be seen as "holiday rental".
Yes, we do also pay our non renting taxes and all other dues.
Yes, we would like the complex to be quieter, but we realise that this will not happen as long as it's the residents who are making the noise!
I can understand where Moodyblue is coming from Lionfish. He bought a magnificent house in a Residential area expecting a bit of peace and quiet.
None of the properties there can be legally let out for holidays because they are classed as residential and dont have licenses and so there is not much point in owners trying to appeal a case for a small reduction because of the legal fees involved in a couple of appeals.
To be fair to all concerned. I would like to just point out the fact that everyone living on a residential complex is fully within their rights and shoud feel free to denounce (denuncia) (it only means a complaint really) other owners who are hindering their enjoyment of their property by allowing noisy holiday makers. The law is there to protect everyone, both renters who can not be insured because of the illegality of such a rental and also the owners of the private property who deserve to get what they paid for.
It is a very simple process and no legal action or expense is involved. You simply have to go to the police office with your complaint and lodge it with the address and name of the person. Just keep your sentence in English simple, type it into Google translate http://translate.google.com/ (http://translate.google.com/) and bring the translation to the Police station in Rosario. You will also need to bring your passport and NIE or Residencia with you.
But if you do lodge a denuncia fifi does this not mean that the authorities will visit and then the fines will inevitably follow.
We have holiday lets around us and we are friends with the owners and the people who maintain the properties so livelyhoods may be effected. Also most owners try to maintain reasonable behaviour by their guests.
However one owner advertises on the letting sites with photos of a different property on the complex. Why?, because it makes his property look as if it stands alone by the dunes, a genuine photo would show that it is in the middle of a housing estate. The information on the sites is also deliberately ambiguous.
Now this irritates me and sometimes when his holidaymakers annoy I feel like doing something about but, at the end of the day, it may affect the other owners who genuinely try to keep all concerned happy.
Lionfish
I agree with what you say about the Spanish being noisy as all of the problems we have had with noise has been caused by them .
My gripe is that I bought off plan from a developer who was advertisng the properties as being of a very high standard in a residencial development , I bought into this development at a cost of 300,000 euro with the intention of moving here and enjoying a peaceful retirement , but now that the developer cannot sell he is renting out to tourists on short term basis .
It was my thinking that whoever bought a property at 300,000 euro would not be buying to rent it out and on that basis we would have a neighbourly relationship with whoever lived there and a mutual respect for each other as neighbours , I dont think this is too much to ask .
Moodyblue,
As I said, many sympathies regarding your situation - I hadn't realised until Fifi's post that you were on a development of larger properties rather than an apartment complex.
We're all aware of the massive over-development on the island which has lead to 100's (1,000's?) of empty properties - a pity we didn't see all these problems on the horizon.
I suppose on one hand you can understand how desperate the developers (and banks) would be to see a return on their money and this is why they are renting out properties they cannot sell.
I suppose you also have the worry that if the suggested changes which might eventually allow villa owners to apply for a holiday letting licence come about you could have an ongoing problem?
Caleta strikes me as being a purpose built resort for tourists.
This law deters a lot of self catering holiday makers. Can the local bars and restaurants survive once the clampdown and denunciations begin? Or is fuerteventura destined to become an All inclusive island holiday destination?
Hotels are to be inspected too and if they are not renovated (if that is what is recommended) they will lose their licenses.
http://www.laprovincia.es/turismo/2012/06/14/hoteles-perder-licencia-renuevan/464027.html (http://www.laprovincia.es/turismo/2012/06/14/hoteles-perder-licencia-renuevan/464027.html)
Coinblue....I am not sure to be honest what way that would pan out.
Quote from: colinblue on August 29, 2012, 10:16:22 AM
But if you do lodge a denuncia fifi does this not mean that the authorities will visit and then the fines will inevitably follow.
We have holiday lets around us and we are friends with the owners and the people who maintain the properties so livelyhoods may be effected. Also most owners try to maintain reasonable behaviour by their guests.
However one owner advertises on the letting sites with photos of a different property on the complex. Why?, because it makes his property look as if it stands alone by the dunes, a genuine photo would show that it is in the middle of a housing estate. The information on the sites is also deliberately ambiguous.
Now this irritates me and sometimes when his holidaymakers annoy I feel like doing something about but, at the end of the day, it may affect the other owners who genuinely try to keep all concerned happy.
Hi Lionfish I came accross the PDF file for Denuncias in the Tourism section on the Gobiernos website if you would like to have a look at it. http://www.gobcan.es/opencms8/export/sites/presidencia/turismo/downloads/Inspeccion_y_Sanciones/INSP-QuejaDenuncia.pdf (http://www.gobcan.es/opencms8/export/sites/presidencia/turismo/downloads/Inspeccion_y_Sanciones/INSP-QuejaDenuncia.pdf)
More information can be found here.. http://www.gobcan.es/presidencia/turismo/quejas_denuncias_reclamaciones/index.html (http://www.gobcan.es/presidencia/turismo/quejas_denuncias_reclamaciones/index.html)
Whilst I do understand that noisy neighbours can be annoying The basic fact is that whether you have a 1/2 million € luxury villa on a private residencial estate or a 50k € apartment in the centre of town.......we virtually all discovered this island as tourists ourselves and chose to live in HOLIDAY RESORTS....where by the very nature you get tourists. Okay some people live inland and away from the resorts and I would ask them if they have problems with noisy neighbours.
Also by their very nature, tourists are probably here for 2 to 3 weeks and then go and the noise ends.......once people get desperate and cannot pay the mortgage then are they not going to accept anybody they can get on long-let contracts, then you potentially have problems permanently!!
Sorry but if you live in a tourist area then complaining about tourists is like moving to blackpool and complaining the illuminations keep you up at night. Put simply....no tourists=no jobs=no bars, restaurants,hospitals,flights,shops=property worth about 1/10th of the mortgage on it=more empty properties.
I fully agree that everyone involved in the letting side of things (owners,cleaners,maintenance etc,etc) should all be registered and paying tax, perhaps then the gobierno may actually have money to invest in the island.
Rant over...and no I do not have any vested interest other than working in the tourist industry, but i am lucky I also am fortunate to not have a mortgage.
I am assuming that the last post by fourthwiswmonkey was directed at me and would like to respond.
Yes we did discover this island when on holiday and chose to buy a nice property in this holiday resort, but we did not choose to live on a holiday complex , there is a difference , as I said in my previous post the developer advertised the properties as an exclusive residencial development , and if we had thought it was going to be anything else then we would not have bought the property .
If for instance I had bought a property on Esmerelda or Amuley Mar , and I use these complexes only as an example because we have stayed there , then I would have to accept that most of these properties are for holiday lets and as such you get a change of occupiers every 1 or 2 weeks most of the year and that means a lot of comings and goings and noise for most of the year , it doesn't mean that they are probably here for 2 or 3 weeks and then the noise ends .
Not everyone who lives in the Blackpool tourist area can see the illuminations and I am sure that they are not kept upall night by noisy tourists because if they were they would be unable to work in the hotels , bars , restaurants ect , in all holiday resorts there are residencial areas and tourist areas and we chose the former and I will do my upmost to make sure that I get what I payed for .
Quite right moodyblue, just because you chose to live in a tourist resort does not mean that you should have to put up with them when you are not. by definition, in a tourist area on a residential estate.
You have my sympathies Moodyblue.
I'm sorry to say that location or value of property in Fuerte is no guarantee of a peaceful lifestyle. You are just as likely to have families with noisy kids living close by in a residential area.
Plus there are many other delights to be found on a residential estate.
Children's drum practice 2 months prior to the local fiesta, a jolly Spanish singsong till 3 in the morning, goats being bought home and shot in the back garden for the barbeque, the neighbourhood drugs dealer with comings and goings night and day – and these are just as likely to be found in upmarket areas. Top marks for noise goes to a diver who used a compressor every day to fill up his oxygen tanks.
You soon learn that most of the locals have a completely different attitude and tolerance to noise levels.
Stone Free
Quote from: Stone Free on September 04, 2012, 10:07:41 AM
You have my sympathies Moodyblue.
I'm sorry to say that location or value of property in Fuerte is no guarantee of a peaceful lifestyle. You are just as likely to have families with noisy kids living close by in a residential area.
Plus there are many other delights to be found on a residential estate.
Children's drum practice 2 months prior to the local fiesta, a jolly Spanish singsong till 3 in the morning, goats being bought home and shot in the back garden for the barbeque, the neighbourhood drugs dealer with comings and goings night and day – and these are just as likely to be found in upmarket areas. Top marks for noise goes to a diver who used a compressor every day to fill up his oxygen tanks.
You soon learn that most of the locals have a completely different attitude and tolerance to noise levels.
Stone Free , thanks for the sympathy but I think you are missing the point.
I know exactly what you are saying about noisy neighbours and 'residencial estates' , noisy neighbours can live anywhere and just because I have paid a lot of money is no guarantee of a quiet life or good neighbours, we have all read about the 'neighbours from hell' back in the UK or maybe some of you have even experienced it .
I also fully understand that should someone who falls into this category decide to buy one of the houses on either side of me then I will have a decision to make , I would then have to make a choice of moving or dealing with it in a not so friendly way.
My point is that it is not 'neighbours ' I have got , it is constantly changing holiday makers who are understandably intent on having a good time , which can mean a few late noisy nights over their two week holiday , they leave and then it starts again .
I would like nothing better than to have neighbours with whom we could have a friendly respectful relationship as most normal decent 'neighbours' do .
I will say again that I have been sold a property which was sold as a 'Residencial Development' and now the developer is marketing it as a holiday complex and doing so illegally as he does not have a licence to do so , and I will do all I can to stop the illegal lets and get some peace and quiet .
Moodyblue, I agree totally with all you have said. We too bought our dream retirement villa a year ago in a residential area. We have been subject to a stag party and groups of young people high on drink jumping in the pool and shouting up to 2am. There are also some very pleasant families, but on the whole it is not the way of life we had planned. I approached the lady that "manages" the property and she said I should have thought about all this before I bought and should get some ear defenders. I DID think about it. That is why I did not buy anywhere near the general holiday scene.I have now been in touch with the owner asking him to inform his holiday makers that they are in a residential area and for them to act accordingly. I also pointed out it was illegal.If this does not work, I will definately be taking legal action.
Gunner
your situation mirrors mine and you have my sympathy and I hope you get it sorted out eventually .
I have been a bit more fortunate than you in that when I complained to the girl at 'Villa Reception'
about the noise she did approach the culprits and ask them to keep it down , but this is not what I want to be doing for the rest of my days , as for the 'property manager' that you approached , well she sounds totally unreasonable .
Another Forum member posted on here recently that it is illegal to use pools after 9pm. I am not sure if this just applies to tourist complexes or whether it extends to use of pools in private residential villas as well. May be worth checking out.
A squad car of Guardia Civil arriving at a late hour to quell the noise may put a stop to it! :o :o :o
Thanks emmi! We take it on board! Moodyblue, we do not intend to let it go on indefinately. We know people have livings to make..cleaners etc. who are no doubt being paid a pittance by probably unlicensed companies, but we are giving the owner 3 months to sort it. If it continues, we plan to take out a denuncia.In the meantime, the sun is shining, we`re not in bad health for pensioners so life is good!
I've a lovely apartment for sale in Pajara [have a look on Google Earth if you don't know it] - you can't get any quieter than that [and there are NO tourists staying there]
Mind you, you do have to speak a bit of Spanish!
If you want a TRULY quiet life have a look - www.apartmentinpajara.com (http://www.apartmentinpajara.com)
An important update from Janet Anscombe.... http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/draft-new-touristic-law-out-to-consultation.html/comment-page-1#comment-20524 (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/draft-new-touristic-law-out-to-consultation.html/comment-page-1#comment-20524)
Draft new touristic law out to consultation
22 September 2012
The Canarian Government has sent the draft new tourism law, the Ley de Renovación y Modernización Turística de Canarias, to the Consultative Committee for consultation. I haven't seen the full draft yet myself, but the Government has asked for a speedy response: as we know, the new law must be on the statute books in December at the latest because the touristic moratorium was extended in May only until the end of the year.
What the Government has formally announced at this point, though, is that the law has as a primary objective the renovation and modernization of touristic urbanizations, areas and products; the diversification of its touristic offer; and authorizations in 2013 and 2014 for 5* hotels in Tenerife, Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura and Lanzarote. Once this period is over, new licences will be considered for establishments under 5* as long as they provide luxury places tied to renovation projects or replace obsolete beds. Construction team employment must significantly favour those who are registered as unemployed.
Existing restrictions outside of these criteria are to be maintained indefinitely. Recognizing the criticism of this stance in some quarters, the Government says that whether people agree with this or not, this is the Government's model and decision, and that the new law does away with the need to keep renewing the existing touristic moratorium which can now be considered to be enshrined in law. The fundamental objects of the legislation are:
to manage and organize the growth of the touristic offer, tying this to quality improvement both in terms of renovation and new build
to increase quality levels and the category of touristic establishments
to avoid, and if appropriate, redirect the residentialisation of touristic areas
to provide the Government with effective juridical mechanisms to incentivise and, as appropriate, ensure compliance with conservation, renovation and effective use requirements
to restore the image of touristic areas
The new law envisages the possibility of touristic licences being awarded in Tenerife, Gran Canaria, Fuerteventura and Lanzarote only for:
the renovation of existing touristic establishments
the implementation of touristic places based on rights deriving from renovation projects
hotels on approved urban non-touristic land (suelo urbano consolidado) and rural hotels
hotels of a minimum 5* category
non-hotel accommodation where planning rules expressly permit, or do not prohibit, it, with a minimum 5* category in respect of apartments
specialist accommodation establishments
The new plans will complement, and in some cases replace, existing urban designations in order to make urban renovation more viable. They will also include new formats in touristic organization such as the condominium – based on the American model – and touristic villas, the latter being at least 500 metres from the coast, of a density of between 10 and 40 units per hectare depending on overall plot size, and which do not exceed 20% of the surface area concerned. In addition, a procedure is envisaged to regularize and authorize accommodation establishments which have existing licences from before Ley 19/2003, and which comply with all requirements necessary to be considered touristic establishments.
With regard to incentives for renovation, the law includes measures for financial incentives and additional places – up to 50% for hotels and 25% for apartments, except where:
the category will be lower than 3*
the conversion is from a hotel to a non-hotel establishment
when the conversion is from a non-hotel to a hotel establishment that does not convert the regimen of horizontal property to one of ordinary ownership or co-ownership