Smart Meter problems

Started by Chris1965, January 20, 2019, 08:49:05 AM

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Chris1965

Electric keeps tripping out at the smart meter. We need to increase KW from 5.5 to 9 but need a certificate from a registered Sparky, anyone know one?

Archer

Who told you you need an electrician? It trips because you are attempting to draw more than you have set your potencia.
That is different from drawing more than your supply can stand.
What size main circuit breaker is installed? And what is installed in your home that prompts the meter trip?

Johnrgby2

Archer is more than probably right Chris, how often does it happen if it is 2/3 times s day, you have a problem if it is once or twice a week, it is probably as Archer says, we get it occasionally, mostly when the grandkids are here and every light on the property is switched on, the washing machine is running and there are Ipads connected to the system or being charged in every room ::) ::)

Lexeus

#3
Unfortunately I can't recommend an electrician to you, but in your defence, I think the question here is what paperwork you have for your original electrical installation.

In order a get an electrical connection to your property you need to get a qualified electrician to issue a Bolotin electrico (or CIE), and the same goes when you want Endesa to up the Power handled by an existing installation.

Frankly, we no nothing about Chris's house, but at 5.5Kw his house is on the norm of 25A (same as my apartment) so I could imagine he already has an existing Bolotin certifying the installation to the normal 25A, but going above that is out of the ordinary so then better get it checked properly!

I would go as far to say that if you actually ask the local Endesa office to give you a 41A (9Kw) connection, then you may find they can't do it depending on your location. There are many rural properties out here that aren't allowed above 25A, and I have heard an instance of the neighbours complaining because one house is maxing out their connection and causing voltage dips because the Grid supply isn't up to the demand....  :-X
My advice is if you rang up a national Endesa number and someone told you to get the new Bolotin then don't go spending any money on it until you have checked with the local office that they can actually give you that supply.

This link is a Spanish site explaining it, and I have copied the 4 example cases where you will need a Bolotin, point two covers exactly Chris's case: https://www.endesaclientes.com/blog/boletin-electrico-cie

Estas son las 4 situaciones más frecuentes en las que vas a necesitar tu boletín o CIE:

1. Tienes que dar de alta la luz (porque entras a vivir en una casa de obra nueva).
2. Quieres subir la potencia contratada y, al hacerlo, superas el máximo que figura en tu boletín. Necesitarás un nuevo boletín que certifique que es seguro subir la potencia.
3. Quieres cambiar tu instalación eléctrica para que deje de ser monofásica y pase a ser trifásica.
4. Realizas un cambio en tu contrato y tu boletín está caducado: por eso al comprar una vivienda de segunda mano es importante comprobar si el boletín está vigente. Si no lo está, puedes pedir al vendedor que asuma el coste de renovarlo. 

matahari

Our electric sometimes trips out in the middle of the night, with nothing running apart from bedside clocks. Any ideas? My only thought was mains surge, if there is such a thing.

Lexeus

Quote from: matahari on February 04, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
Our electric sometimes trips out in the middle of the night, with nothing running apart from bedside clocks. Any ideas? My only thought was mains surge, if there is such a thing.

What exactly trips? Is it the Circuit breaker or a Residual Current Device ? The RCD has the extra button on it for testing it, which on ours is coloured white... but I think I have seen blue aswell..... or in the UK its orange or yellow...

If it's the circuit breaker is it the master circuit breaker or is it the circuit breaker built into your new smart meter?

Chris1965

Thanks for all your replies, but I think I must ask the question again.

Does anyone know a registered sparky? We have spoken to Endesa and they have requested the certificate. We are aware of what is causing the problem and why, but thanks for your best intentions.

Chris 

matahari

Quote from: Lexeus on February 07, 2019, 13:30:14 PM
Quote from: matahari on February 04, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
Our electric sometimes trips out in the middle of the night, with nothing running apart from bedside clocks. Any ideas? My only thought was mains surge, if there is such a thing.

What exactly trips? Is it the Circuit breaker or a Residual Current Device ? The RCD has the extra button on it for testing it, which on ours is coloured white... but I think I have seen blue aswell..... or in the UK its orange or yellow...

If it's the circuit breaker is it the master circuit breaker or is it the circuit breaker built into your new smart meter?
It is the RCD (orangy yellow button next to it)

emmi

I wonder if the Endesa  office has a list of qualified electricians for this procedure?

Lexeus

#9
Quote from: matahari on February 12, 2019, 08:19:37 AM
Quote from: Lexeus on February 07, 2019, 13:30:14 PM
Quote from: matahari on February 04, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
Our electric sometimes trips out in the middle of the night, with nothing running apart from bedside clocks. Any ideas? My only thought was mains surge, if there is such a thing.

What exactly trips? Is it the Circuit breaker or a Residual Current Device ? The RCD has the extra button on it for testing it, which on ours is coloured white... but I think I have seen blue aswell..... or in the UK its orange or yellow...

If it's the circuit breaker is it the master circuit breaker or is it the circuit breaker built into your new smart meter?
It is the RCD (orangy yellow button next to it)

An RCD is designed to trip on an escape of current from the circuit (so not because of a power surge which would trip the MCB), but can be accidentally tripped by certain devices etc that may be causing inductance in the circuit, often common with sudden large draws of power. Three suggestions to check though:

1. My first thought would be, if this only happens at night, are there any timers set to turn something on at night? Is it when an electric water heater switches on for example?

2. If not then the next culprit would be moisture forming on contacts due to the colder air and warm walls at night, perhaps a badly installed wall socket or similar is causing a short circuit to earth or neutral?
I have experienced this one my self in the UK in a high moisture environment with a room with lots of wall sockets.

3. Lastly it could just indicate a device is failing but for some reason it just hasn't yet happened when you would notice, if the problem starts occurring regularly then maybe try turning off the electric water heater at night and see if that stops it. Maybe inspect the tank and see if it is about to stop working because the vessel has ruptured a little and soon will be a flood? Do you get orange water out of it? ;)

Lexeus

Quote from: Chris1965 on February 12, 2019, 07:54:50 AM
Thanks for all your replies, but I think I must ask the question again.

Does anyone know a registered sparky? We have spoken to Endesa and they have requested the certificate. We are aware of what is causing the problem and why, but thanks for your best intentions.

Chris

I have no recommendations that I can make sorry, but as you have no other suggessions here, I do have this noted down in case I ever needed it:

http://instaladorelectricistalaspalmas.es/empresa-instalaciones-electricas-las-palmas-boletin-electrico/

If you you try them then maybe let us know how it turns out? :)

matahari



An RCD is designed to trip on an escape of current from the circuit (so not because of a power surge which would trip the MCB), but can be accidentally tripped by certain devices etc that may be causing inductance in the circuit, often common with sudden large draws of power. Three suggestions to check though:

1. My first thought would be, if this only happens at night, are there any timers set to turn something on at night? Is it when an electric water heater switches on for example?

2. If not then the next culprit would be moisture forming on contacts due to the colder air and warm walls at night, perhaps a badly installed wall socket or similar is causing a short circuit to earth or neutral?
I have experienced this one my self in the UK in a high moisture environment with a room with lots of wall sockets.

3. Lastly it could just indicate a device is failing but for some reason it just hasn't yet happened when you would notice, if the problem starts occurring regularly then maybe try turning off the electric water heater at night and see if that stops it. Maybe inspect the tank and see if it is about to stop working because the vessel has ruptured a little and soon will be a flood? Do you get orange water out of it? ;)
[/quote]
1. No timers but water heater is permanently on.
2. Possible I suppose.
3. We have a 'better quality' water heater but I suppose it's possible, no discolouration though.
Thanks for your help.

Lexeus

#12
With regards to the electric water heaters, if it's one of the standard cylinder shaped heaters there isn't really a "better quality" one from what I have seen available on the island. The problem is that the high mineral content in the desalinated water causes the metal in them to corrode eventually, regardless of how well it is made. I have measured the mineral content in my tap water and compared with what I had back in Wales it has 4 times the dissolved minerals.

I have always had heaters like the "Teka" branded ones and they can easily break after 4 years use. It does also depend on where your water comes from, as the different desalination plants offer differing quality of water, down south we have pretty bad water, one smaller producer isn't legally allowed to sell the water as it's report showed it had bacteria in it......  ???

Also, you say the water heater is permanently on but in reality it is only actually powered on for periods of time after there has been a draw on the hot water, and in reality most of the time it only has the Power LED on. So for example, if you often have a shower before you go to bed and therefore empty the hot water tank, you have gone to bed but your water heater has only just kicked in and by the time the RCD has tripped you are probably asleep. Perhaps for example the high power draw on the heater will stop because it has reached correct temperature but the switching action on the thermostat causes a small amount of current to jump to an earth leak caused by a small amount of moisture.

Just an idea ;)

matahari

Quote from: Lexeus on February 14, 2019, 14:57:28 PM

Also, you say the water heater is permanently on but in reality it is only actually powered on for periods of time after there has been a draw on the hot water, and in reality most of the time it only has the Power LED on. So for example, if you often have a shower before you go to bed and therefore empty the hot water tank, you have gone to bed but your water heater has only just kicked in and by the time the RCD has tripped you are probably asleep. Perhaps for example the high power draw on the heater will stop because it has reached correct temperature but the switching action on the thermostat causes a small amount of current to jump to an earth leak caused by a small amount of moisture.

Just an idea ;)

Very little hot water is used after 7pm so I don't see this as an answer - it only happens very occasionally anyway.